Gordon Strachan

[troopio]

forameus I don't disagree with your response in fact I agree with it and of course we know that there are no better options than guff like Gordon Greer but why call these new guys up against the Czechs and the Danes yet barely keep any of them for the follow up games, which mean nothing, just because it was France and Italy,  to play the usual suspects who have already failed? What was he going to learn about Steven Fletcher and Steven Naismith that he doesn't already know only to then moan publicly about how he hasn't got the facility or time to try new players?

[pub car king]

I mean in general times the mindset if the sfa and the game in general.

Ireland said f**k it against Italy they needed to win so tried their best to do that.

Scotland would have tried not to lose and that is a mentality from the manager and those within the game. We want to win but also you want some enjoyment from the sport

[Officer Barbrady]

To your first question, in my eyes, Strachan should have set us out more positive to start with.  I think he thought that Georgia would be easier to roll over than they ended up being, and the players did too.  That's all well and good if they play nice and sit back looking for a point, but they outthought us.  They got a goal against the run of play, by which point we were up shit creek.  From that point on, there's not really much Strachan can do, short of hoping that Georgia make a mistake.  They didn't.  From the goal onwards, the players pretty much did nothing right.  They were slow, ponderous, and fumbling around the edge of the box not really knowing what to do.  So the blame scales swung from probably being 75/25 the managers fault, to the other direction as the game went on.

 

 

To your second...I'm not really sure what you want people to say?  What evidence is there that results like Georgia won't happen?  None.  Because results like that aren't really predictable.  The only thing I guess you could say is that Strachan will have learned not to underestimate teams like Georgia - so Lithuania this time around.  If you're being super-critical,  you could say that it started against Gibraltar when he played a ridiculous one-at-the-back system.  They scored, he realised his mistake and luckily we weren't punished.  By the time he realised his mistake against Georgia it was already too late.  Not sure if they're comparable though.

 

I'm not sure public opinion has changed.  The vast majority of the support in Faro supported him, but I agree that there's certainly more people that are critical of him now than there was before Georgia, say.  The rest of what you're saying is a massive stretch, and again it's coming down to seemingly just not liking him as a person.  His "techniques" seemed to be not too bad until we derailed in Tbilisi, and I'd say beyond that they weren't that bad either.  Again, this isn't like we had a Levein-esque tumbling out of contention after a handful of games, this was a mostly positive campaign soured by one absolute nightmare and a few - admittedly in hindsight - bad moments.  A failure, yes, but tough to draw parallels between people's personal dislike for him (which is fair enough) and the results.

Anything said about Strachan, is only as personal as he is prepared to make it look with his own ridiculous, ill-timed statements. On his 'techniques', i'll hold my hands up and admit that i, too, was fooled by the idea that his meeja-hardman act was simply a shroud to protect his players against criticism. But the mask has slipped, for the most part because the criticism has largely increased because he has done very little to merge this goodwill from sceptical supporters all over the country (not just the 12,000 idiots in Faro) with any obvious, thought out plan or structure to aid the team when big bad teams like Georgia just sit in to make life difficult for us.

His job has been remarkably easy....six games of that group, as directed by Strachan, required zero motivation or tactical planning, as our main gameplan seemed to be to hold on to anything we got, whenever we got it. There was nothing, no plan B or even A to carry out instruction to, which left us hugely exposed in Dublin, at home to Poland, and to.a degree in Dortmund too. Three occasions, outwith Georgia ((which i completely agree, by the way, that such games happen....that's football) where Scotland had their foot in the door, and made a c**t of it.

That's not a poor team, that's poor management. He had nine friendlies to instill an identity, a gameplan into that squad of players, which every team relies on....not to WIN games, as it's your natural ability that wins games, nit formations.....but as a starting block to stick to when things go wrong.

I don't know if Strachan has good dressing room 'techniques' or not, but the fact nine months later he's still bleating about bad luck and shite players, suggests that there is little more than a shrug of the shoulders from him 'as long as you give your best'. Where's his fucking best? He's completely neglected his duty, if that is his idea of management.

[troopio]

Anything said about Strachan, is only as personal as he is prepared to make it look with his own ridiculous, ill-timed statements. On his 'techniques', i'll hold my hands up and admit that i, too, was fooled by the idea that his meeja-hardman act was simply a shroud to protect his players against criticism. But the mask has slipped, for the most part because the criticism has largely increased because he has done very little to merge this goodwill from sceptical supporters all over the country (not just the 12,000 idiots in Faro) with any obvious, thought out plan or structure to aid the team when big bad teams like Georgia just sit in to make life difficult for us. His job has been remarkably easy....six games of that group, as directed by Strachan, required zero motivation or tactical planning, as our main gameplan seemed to be to hold on to anything we got, whenever we got it. There was nothing, no plan B or even A to carry out instruction to, which left us hugely exposed in Dublin, at home to Poland, and to.a degree in Dortmund too. Three occasions, outwith Georgia ((which i completely agree, by the way, that such games happen....that's football) where Scotland had their foot in the door, and made a c**t of it. That's not a poor team, that's poor management. He had nine friendlies to instill an identity, a gameplan into that squad of players, which every team relies on....not to WIN games, as it's your natural ability that wins games, nit formations.....but as a starting block to stick to when things go wrong. I don't know if Strachan has good dressing room 'techniques' or not, but the fact nine months later he's still bleating about bad luck and shite players, suggests that there is little more than a shrug of the shoulders from him 'as long as you give your best'. Where's his fucking best? He's completely neglected his duty, if that is his idea of management.

 

This.

 

 

The Fans in Faro were an embarrassment, how could we celebrate beating a team like Gibraltar in a meaningless game as if it actually mattered?

[Officer Barbrady]

I mean in general times the mindset if the sfa and the game in general.

Ireland said f**k it against Italy they needed to win so tried their best to do that.

Scotland would have tried not to lose and that is a mentality from the manager and those within the game. We want to win but also you want some enjoyment from the sport

Ireland didn't say 'f**k it'. They knew what they had to get, and while they had the fortune of playing a team already through, they still had to come up with a plan on how to combat them. Their plan, was like every other game they play....pressing hard in their own half, and hitting on the break. When Brady scores, he's the only Irishman in the box....there's four Italians. As players, they want it more than ours do, quite simply.

[TheScarf]

Wrong on so many things once again Scarf, keep it up ðŸ‘ðŸ¼

 

You're all over every Celtic thread like a rash, you have South Ireland as you're Euro 2016 team, you're a massive Celtic fan.  You think Strachan, a former Celtic manager who has a hard-on for picking reserve Celtic players in competitive qualifiers, can do no wrong. Have I missed anything?

 

More emojis to go along with the personal insults I see.  Well done again.

[Lex]

TBF, it's Strachan's comments that have sent people into "overdrive". I doubt the Scottish national side would be getting much of a mention at the moment if the national team boss wasn't in the press every few days to have a wee pity party about the players he has to work with. He could quite easily have taken himself out of the press for a couple of months, and probably should have done.

Indeed he should. He should have been lying low on a beach somewhere.

He loves the media attention and the sound of his own voice though. So he's causing us yet more embarrassment with his latest bizarre ranting.

[1320Lichtie]

You're all over every Celtic thread like a rash, you have South Ireland as you're Euro 2016 team, you're a massive Celtic fan. You think Strachan, a former Celtic manager who has a hard-on for picking reserve Celtic players in competitive qualifiers, can do no wrong. Have I missed anything?

More emojis to go along with the personal insults I see. Well done again.

All over every Celtic thread? What. The only ones I'm ever on are the match threads that are live on tv like I am with every other game that's live on tv.

I literally NEVER post about Celtic. I have 1 post in their thread. To put that into perspective I've got 5 in the Partick Thistle one, 3 in the Aberdeen one, 8 in the St Johnstone one and 665 in the Arbroath one...

The only reason I ever got called a Celtic fan is because I admitted that j want them to do well in Europe (like I do with all Scottish clubs) and I wanted them to beat Rangers (like I want all other Scottish clubs to beat them).

That's it. I've also been called a Rangers fan funnily enough.

Again though if that makes you feel like that's the only reason I'm defending Strachan against your deluded insults then just you keep telling yourself that.

[TheScarf]

All over every Celtic thread? What. The only ones I'm ever on are the match threads that are live on tv like I am with every other game that's live on tv.

I literally NEVER post about Celtic. I have 1 post in their thread. To put that into perspective I've got 5 in the Partick Thistle one, 3 in the Aberdeen one, 8 in the St Johnstone one and 665 in the Arbroath one...

The only reason I ever got called a Celtic fan is because I admitted that j want them to do well in Europe (like I do with all Scottish clubs) and I wanted them to beat Rangers (like I want all other Scottish clubs to beat them).

That's it. I've also been called a Rangers fan funnily enough.

Again though if that makes you feel like that's the only reason I'm defending Strachan against your deluded insults then just you keep telling yourself that.

 

Confirmation there, if needed.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Indeed he should. He should have been lying low on a beach somewhere.

He loves the media attention and the sound of his own voice though. So he's causing us yet more embarrassment with his latest bizarre ranting.

 

To be fair the plan was to get England and Slovakia scouted by himself and McCall, don't know if McCall did end up scouting after being taking the Bradford job. You just know if Strachan was pictured on a beach half way across the world this place would be in meltdown because he was away getting a tan instead of having a look at England and Slovakia.

 

He needs to shut his gub though, the nonsense about Rangers and Hibs being in the lower leagues and slagging our players one minute then building them up the next isn't helping anyone.

[haggisbeastie]

No, we weren't unlucky. If anything, we were lucky (see the 3 own goals in our favour throughout the campaign, Ireland hitting the bar at Celtic Park). It's not unlucky to shite it against Georgia away, it wasn't unlucky to shite it and think a draw was good enough in Dublin, it wasn't unlucky to fail to hold on to a lead against Poland twice, it wasn't unlucky that shite defending cost us 2 goals in Germany. It wasn't unlucky that Poland and Ireland took points from Germany; it was those teams having belief and playing well. That's not luck.

I get that he's trying to be positive, but he contradicts himself a lot in that respect.

Also what teams at the tournament are we better than? I think we could give Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland a game and would have a good chance of beating them, but at home. Away we'd turn in our usual shitebag performances most likely.

Blunt, but I agree with the basic sentiment. We should not tolerate failures, as teams like both Ireland's have proved you do not have to.

Being a realist does not mean cowing to so-called better teams, especially when others seem to be able to beat them...

[Officer Barbrady]

1916 Lhichtie is quite notorious for believing the seedings ought to have a deciding factor in match results. Of course, completely forgetting that three previous champions crashed out at the hands of three teams who went on to become tournament debutants. To carry my assertion that events in Dortmund, Dublin and in the final minutes of our campaign at Hampden had more of an impact on our failure than simply losing to Georgia, (which is now, by the way, two visits two defeats.....how arrogant of anyone to assume those were 3 points waiting for us to pick up) why shouldn't it have been realistic for us to have ground those results out after getting into those positions?

The second goal in Dortmund, in particular, was as bad as Lewandowski's equaliser. You reduce the fucking world champions to punting the ball into YOUR box from seventy yards away, and have absolutely no idea how to defend it....you'd expect the defence to deal with that fairly easily given their level. But they clearly didn't expect us to be 1-1 at any point in the game, because if they had done, and the conversation took place between Strachan and his team about what to do, they'd have cleared it without hesitation.

Strachan's noble defence of his team from day one was rendered worthless when he decided not to arm them with the necessary tactics and instructions to carry out their jobs.

[forameus]

1916 Lhichtie is quite notorious for believing the seedings ought to have a deciding factor in match results. Of course, completely forgetting that three previous champions crashed out at the hands of three teams who went on to become tournament debutants. To carry my assertion that events in Dortmund, Dublin and in the final minutes of our campaign at Hampden had more of an impact on our failure than simply losing to Georgia, (which is now, by the way, two visits two defeats.....how arrogant of anyone to assume those were 3 points waiting for us to pick up) why shouldn't it have been realistic for us to have ground those results out after getting into those positions?

The second goal in Dortmund, in particular, was as bad as Lewandowski's equaliser. You reduce the fucking world champions to punting the ball into YOUR box from seventy yards away, and have absolutely no idea how to defend it....you'd expect the defence to deal with that fairly easily given their level. But they clearly didn't expect us to be 1-1 at any point in the game, because if they had done, and the conversation took place between Strachan and his team about what to do, they'd have cleared it without hesitation.

Strachan's noble defence of his team from day one was rendered worthless when he decided not to arm them with the necessary tactics and instructions to carry out their jobs.

 

This is one thing that annoys me - not purely down to Strachan and the Scotland players, but generally.  You talk about a completely preventable goal, and you're right.  Professional footballers should be able to deal with a ball pumped into the box.  But you seem to be writing as though they needed Strachan to tell them "see when the ball goes into the box like that, punt it away".  I'm not saying managers are completely absolved of blame once a team takes to the field, and they're certainly responsible for the general setup of a team, but I'd like to think that footballers are smart enough - in a football sense alone - to be able to react in a way that won't see them concede a goal, regardless of any instructions they've had.

 

It's just the way football is, I know, that the buck stops with managers, but it annoys me that players can get away relatively freely while managers get punted.  England stank the place out against Iceland, but you better believe that most of them will be taking their places in the squad in the Autumn.  Archibald got abuse at points last season when most of our players couldn't hit five yard passes accurately.

 

As for the main point, it's six and half dozen really.  Of course there were points where we could have picked up more points than we did.  We probably should've beaten Ireland.  We could well have got something from the game in Dortmund.  We should have gotten at least one win against Poland, particularly at Hampden.  But the Georgia one is always going to have the bigger impact, because that was the surer thing.  If we'd finished four points behind, it wouldn't have nearly the same impact, but to know that we finished three points behind, and that a win against a very  beatable Georgia side would have seen us into the playoffs, of course that's the biggest impact.  Doesn't change the fact that we made mistakes elsewhere, but they were lesser.

[1320Lichtie]

1916 Lhichtie is quite notorious for believing the seedings ought to have a deciding factor in match results. Of course, completely forgetting that three previous champions crashed out at the hands of three teams who went on to become tournament debutants. To carry my assertion that events in Dortmund, Dublin and in the final minutes of our campaign at Hampden had more of an impact on our failure than simply losing to Georgia, (which is now, by the way, two visits two defeats.....how arrogant of anyone to assume those were 3 points waiting for us to pick up) why shouldn't it have been realistic for us to have ground those results out after getting into those positions?

The second goal in Dortmund, in particular, was as bad as Lewandowski's equaliser. You reduce the fucking world champions to punting the ball into YOUR box from seventy yards away, and have absolutely no idea how to defend it....you'd expect the defence to deal with that fairly easily given their level. But they clearly didn't expect us to be 1-1 at any point in the game, because if they had done, and the conversation took place between Strachan and his team about what to do, they'd have cleared it without hesitation.

Strachan's noble defence of his team from day one was rendered worthless when he decided not to arm them with the necessary tactics and instructions to carry out their jobs.

Nonsense

It was a failure and I accept that. I have no problem with admitting that. I totally agree with what Dunning has said on the matter though.

My only issue is with people criticising the points tallies we picked up against Poland and ROI. Completely delusional as to how good we are as a team if they think they were bad results.

The incessant whinging from folk as well also gets on my nerves, some literally moan about every single thing the man does.

[troopio]

It's just the way football is, I know, that the buck stops with managers, but it annoys me that players can get away relatively freely while managers get punted.  England stank the place out against Iceland, but you better believe that most of them will be taking their places in the squad in the Autumn.  Archibald got abuse at points last season when most of our players couldn't hit five yard passes accurately.

 

 

 

If it annoys you so much that Players get away with Murder and you reference things like the fact that England, and we know we will as well, will use the same failed players come the Autumn how come you are very open in your defence of certain players in the Scotland Squad? In that respect and for arguments sake, Alan Hutton, Steven Fletcher, Scott Brown, Steven Naismith, Shaun Maloney, Steven Whittaker, Gordon Greer to name but a few have now FAILED in at least two campaigns under different Managers . Granted your counter argument is to say who replaces them as there clearly isn't anyone better blah blah but considering you are making a statement like the above it shouldn't matter who replaces Players who fail and get away with Murder in that respect shouldn't it because they have therefore had enough chances and failed? The argument that we have no better options therefore must select them regardless is futile now.

[forameus]

If it annoys you so much that Players get away with Murder and you reference things like the fact that England, and we know we will as well, will use the same failed players come the Autumn how come you are very open in your defence of certain players in the Scotland Squad? In that respect and for arguments sake, Alan Hutton, Steven Fletcher, Scott Brown, Steven Naismith, Shaun Maloney, Steven Whittaker, Gordon Greer to name but a few have now FAILED in at least two campaigns under different Managers . Granted your counter argument is to say who replaces them as there clearly isn't anyone better blah blah but considering you are making a statement like the above it shouldn't matter who replaces Players who fail and get away with Murder in that respect shouldn't it because they have therefore had enough chances and failed? The argument that we have no better options therefore must select them regardless is futile now.

 

There's a difference between punting players because they're falling woefully short of potential, and punting them because you just don't like them.  The players you mention, by and large, are the best options we have.  England have the luxury of forgetting about players, as they have plenty of other options to call upon.  We don't.  Some zoomer on 606 suggested that the England squad only be picked from the Championship and League One.  That's the sort of rubbish that certain fans of Scotland come up with.  For example, now that England's star studded midfield has been proved to be not that good, they've got plenty of places to go with "less-fancied" players.  Danny Drinkwater should have gone, but will probably slot in now unless there's a dramatic downturn in form.  You mention your hated seven players, but we've hardly got legions of replacements waiting in the wings.  

 

Alan Hutton?  Probably Patterson, although he seems far better going forward than defensively, and I'd rather the person replacing Hutton actually be able to defend a little better than him.  Otherwise we're just getting a younger version of him, and is that really what people want?

Steven Fletcher?  Probably Rhodes or McCormack, but neither really does what Fletcher does well.  If we changed to suit Rhodes game, maybe, but then I'm not convinced we have the players behind him to do that.

Steven Naismith?  Similar to Fletcher.  He's the best option to do what he does.

Shaun Maloney?  Again, don't think there's anyone good enough to replace him, although imagine he'll be phased out as the campaign goes on.

Gordon Greer?  You know exactly why he's there.

Whittaker?  He's a right back, so same goes for Hutton.

 

Ideally, Strachan (or whoever) would have a load of successful U21 players waiting in the wings to phase in as players ahead of them get older.  We don't have that, either through poor coaching at that level, or just simply the talent not being there.

 

You then say that "it shouldn't matter who replaces players who fail".  Of course it does!  If it didn't, we may as well just offer the first 23 fans that turn up a place in the squad.  A nation in our position doesn't have any choice but to pick the best players we have available within reason.  At Euro 2016 there are plenty of squads chock-full of players who have "failed" to qualify for many tournaments.  Now they have.  Maybe if they had the same level of self-loathing some seem to have here, then they wouldn't have qualified either.  If we continue to want to tear things up and start again, then we'll forever be just a shiter version of England, flitting between delusions of grandeur and "we're pure shite" digs.  If we really want to tear it up and start again, we need to do a little more than throwing out every decent player we have in favour of ones who could well turn out to be even worse.  But then that kind of long-term plan will never go down well with the majority of fans.

[TheScarf]

I'd say there is talent in the 21's, and most of them are playing 90 minutes for 40 odd games a season so there's no lack of competitive experience there.

[1320Lichtie]

I'd say there is talent in the 21's, and most of them are playing 90 minutes for 40 odd games a season so there's no lack of competitive experience there.

Fraser/McGinn/Tierney id be happy to see more of in and about the 1st team.

Think Fraser and Tierney could even start and I'd be ok with it.

[troopio]

forameus I cant argue with your response its actually very fair and spot on.

[1320Lichtie]

There's a difference between punting players because they're falling woefully short of potential, and punting them because you just don't like them. The players you mention, by and large, are the best options we have. England have the luxury of forgetting about players, as they have plenty of other options to call upon. We don't. Some zoomer on 606 suggested that the England squad only be picked from the Championship and League One. That's the sort of rubbish that certain fans of Scotland come up with. For example, now that England's star studded midfield has been proved to be not that good, they've got plenty of places to go with "less-fancied" players. Danny Drinkwater should have gone, but will probably slot in now unless there's a dramatic downturn in form. You mention your hated seven players, but we've hardly got legions of replacements waiting in the wings.

Alan Hutton? Probably Patterson, although he seems far better going forward than defensively, and I'd rather the person replacing Hutton actually be able to defend a little better than him. Otherwise we're just getting a younger version of him, and is that really what people want?

Steven Fletcher? Probably Rhodes or McCormack, but neither really does what Fletcher does well. If we changed to suit Rhodes game, maybe, but then I'm not convinced we have the players behind him to do that.

Steven Naismith? Similar to Fletcher. He's the best option to do what he does.

Shaun Maloney? Again, don't think there's anyone good enough to replace him, although imagine he'll be phased out as the campaign goes on.

Gordon Greer? You know exactly why he's there.

Whittaker? He's a right back, so same goes for Hutton.

Ideally, Strachan (or whoever) would have a load of successful U21 players waiting in the wings to phase in as players ahead of them get older. We don't have that, either through poor coaching at that level, or just simply the talent not being there.

You then say that "it shouldn't matter who replaces players who fail". Of course it does! If it didn't, we may as well just offer the first 23 fans that turn up a place in the squad. A nation in our position doesn't have any choice but to pick the best players we have available within reason. At Euro 2016 there are plenty of squads chock-full of players who have "failed" to qualify for many tournaments. Now they have. Maybe if they had the same level of self-loathing some seem to have here, then they wouldn't have qualified either. If we continue to want to tear things up and start again, then we'll forever be just a shiter version of England, flitting between delusions of grandeur and "we're pure shite" digs. If we really want to tear it up and start again, we need to do a little more than throwing out every decent player we have in favour of ones who could well turn out to be even worse. But then that kind of long-term plan will never go down well with the majority of fans.

Agree with all of this although Maloney can gtf now for me. Done good but there's Snodgrass and Ritchie to play in there now. Then that position is a position where we've got a lot of options in the youths now, the 3 in behind the striker.