Next UK Labour Leader - post Brexit

[Cream Cheese]

12 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

We've no idea if they do or not. I've heard some people who are backing Corbyn but don't even care who is more electable of the two.

I'm more concerned about whether the electorate agree with me more than the membership anyway.

The problem is. You're putting electability over much needed policies. You're quite happy for Labour to out tory the tories, just for the sake of getting into office. You're quite happy for nothing to change. So why not just back the Conservative Party? Why do you keep fooling yourself?

[Fide]

13 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

We've no idea if they do or not. I've heard some people who are backing Corbyn but don't even care who is more electable of the two.

I'm more concerned about whether the electorate agree with me more than the membership anyway.

Yes we do.  I have more chance of spending an intimate weekend with Emma Stone at the Travelodge in Working than Corbyn has of losing the leadership election.

[Gordon EF]

28 minutes ago, DrewDon said:

Apologies for not responding to this earlier. 

Most people join trade unions to protect their individual interests and rights, and to benefit individually from other aspects of membership; not necessarily as an overt demonstration of support for the broader objectives of the trade union movement. I cannot personally comprehend the logic in joining a trade union because you value your rights and conditions at work enough to do so, and then proceeding to vote for the Tories - the mainstream Party most likely to undermine and threaten the very things you would join a trade union to protect. But enough people obviously do. It is entirely permissible to be a member of a trade union (Unite and Unison included) and not to identify as a Labour supporter. This is the case regardless of whether you consider yourself left-wing, right-wing or neither.

I'd agree. It's not difficult to imagine someone who joins a union because they feel it's of personal benefit to them but is well off and secure enough to feel that a right-wing government is also in their interests.

[BerwickMad]

Yes we do.  I have more chance of spending an intimate weekend with Emma Stone at the Travelodge in Working than Corbyn has of losing the leadership election.

That's totally different. Supporting Corbyn doesn't automatically suggest you think he's more electable than Smith. Their are people backing Corbyn who don't care whether he's more electable or not than Smith.

[doulikefish]

Unite support Corbyn

[Cream Cheese]

3 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

That's totally different. Supporting Corbyn doesn't automatically suggest you think he's more electable than Smith. Their are people backing Corbyn who don't care whether he's more electable or not than Smith.

There's a thing in this world called "time". You don't seem to realize this though. Everything occurs in an instant in your little bubble. You assume that because Corbyn isn't electable right now, he will never be electable ever. Politics can change drastically in such a small amount of time.

[BerwickMad]

The problem is. You're putting electability over much needed policies. You're quite happy for Labour to out tory the tories, just for the sake of getting into office. You're quite happy for nothing to change. So why not just back the Conservative Party? Why do you keep fooling yourself?

The policies presented by Owen Smith in his campaign are not out Torying the Tories. They're left wing policies and ideas. Even so, there is a vast gap between Corbyn politics and the Tories. You can be to the right of Corbyn and not be a Tory. This 'Corbyn or you're a Tory' stance is pathetic and childish.

I also fully agree with the vast majority of Corbyn's overall policies, but I don't think there's much of a plan behind them and I think he's a very poor leader.

[Cream Cheese]

Just now, BerwickMad said:

The policies presented by Owen Smith in his campaign are not out Torying the Tories. They're left wing policies and ideas. Even so, there is a vast gap between Corbyn politics and the Tories. You can be to the right of Corbyn and not be a Tory. This 'Corbyn or you're a Tory' stance is pathetic and childish.

I also fully agree with the vast majority of Corbyn's overall policies, but I don't think there's much of a plan behind them and I think he's a very poor leader.

That's your opinion though. But for such a poor leader (in your mind), he doesn't half receive a powerful backing from the membership. So he surely can't be all that bad. If people were really so worried that he'd do a bad job, they would join the party just to vote against him. But the people doing this are a minority. The vast majority are joining to support him. A fact that you just can't dodge.

[BerwickMad]

There's a thing in this world called "time". You don't seem to realize this though. Everything occurs in an instant in your little bubble. You assume that because Corbyn isn't electable right now, he will never be electable ever. Politics can change drastically in such a small amount of time.

Na, bollocks I'm afraid. I believe he's speaking to the converted and he isn't convincing anyone beyond his narrow support base. I think his leadership skills have been awful, backed up by what I see, hear and read. You can chose to ignore what you hear if you want, put them down to conspiracy theories, the nasty press or whatever. I'm not going to do that. He was second on my list for leader out of four because I agreed with most of what he said last summer. But it's a year on, and I want some evidence he's turning things round, that he's convincing new people and that he's appealing beyond his narrow base. He isn't. He's did a poor job.

I said here late last year that I worry that it's the right policies, but wrong person. My view has been strengthened since then.

[BerwickMad]

That's your opinion though. But for such a poor leader (in your mind), he doesn't half receive a powerful backing from the membership. So he surely can't be all that bad. If people were really so worried that he'd do a bad job, they would join the party just to vote against him. But the people doing this are a minority. The vast majority are joining to support him. A fact that you just can't dodge.

I don't disagree with that. I don't think he's all bad, I just don't think he's a leader and I don't think he's electable.

[Cream Cheese]

Just now, BerwickMad said:

Na, bollocks I'm afraid. I believe he's speaking to the converted and he isn't convincing anyone beyond his narrow support base. I think his leadership skills have been awful, backed up by what I see, hear and read. You can chose to ignore what you hear if you want, put them down to conspiracy theories, the nasty press or whatever. I'm not going to do that. He was second on my list for leader out of four because I agreed with most of what he said last summer. But it's a year on, and I want some evidence he's turning things round, that he's convincing new people and that he's appealing beyond his narrow base. He isn't. He's did a poor job.

I said here late last year that I worry that it's the right policies, but wrong person. My view has been strengthened since then.

The conspiracy is that he can't change the political landscape of the country. A conspiracy that you're buying into without question because you're being told to. He's struggling to reach out to more people right now, because the PLP are creating as many negative distractions as they can possibly stir up. People can't see beyond these distractions. So they're not seeing what his policies are, or what plan he's trying to lay out to make them achievable. Instead, they have their heads shoved so far up the arse of the BBC that they can't see anything beyond what they're being ordered to believe.

It's really quite sad.

[AUFC90]

Will the moderate Tories within the Labour party leave after their inevitable pumping or will they stay on the gravy train ?

[Ira Gaines]

That's totally different. Supporting Corbyn doesn't automatically suggest you think he's more electable than Smith. Their are people backing Corbyn who don't care whether he's more electable or not than Smith.

That's because those aren't backwards thinking morons though.

Staggering that the whole electable thing is more important than the values that these drones claim are important. And once again, it's a completely pointless route to go down because neither will be elected, nor will any other Labour leader.

Labour need a shift and I think what has the Blairites so rumbled is that they think that one might be possible. And they seem to think that this is a horrible thing.

[BerwickMad]

That's because those aren't backwards thinking morons though.

Staggering that the whole electable thing is more important than the values that these drones claim are important. And once again, it's a completely pointless route to go down because neither will be elected, nor will any other Labour leader.

Labour need a shift and I think what has the Blairites so rumbled is that they think that one might be possible. And they seem to think that this is a horrible thing.

I know quite a few people with similar values to myself. I'm sure you know a fair few people with similar values to yourself. That doesn't mean you have to automatically think they make good leader or that they're good at every job they do.

[Granny Danger]

Charlie Falconer on the radio tonight saying the PLP should unite behind whoever is elected leader and fight the Tories.  I'd like to see more Labour politicians saying the same.

[DublinMagyar]

Unite against? Isn't that the problem?

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, DublinMagyar said:

Unite against? Isn't that the problem?

Sorry that must have been Freudian.   I meant unite behind.

[BerwickMad]

Debate wasn't bad, but ruined by the performing seals and the wolf whistles. Didn't matter what either said, it would get exactly the same reaction.

[Ludo*1]

Not been keeping up to date - is Corbyn favourite?

[marty_j]

The policies presented by Owen Smith in his campaign are not out Torying the Tories. They're left wing policies and ideas. Even so, there is a vast gap between Corbyn politics and the Tories. You can be to the right of Corbyn and not be a Tory. This 'Corbyn or you're a Tory' stance is pathetic and childish.

I also fully agree with the vast majority of Corbyn's overall policies, but I don't think there's much of a plan behind them and I think he's a very poor leader.

"
Smith only coming out with "left wing policies" due to Corbyn getting massive support. No way Labour would be anywhere near this far left if not for Corbyn factor.

That in itself is a victory for me. Smith seems to just nail his colours to anything he thinks might be popular than stuff he actually believes in. Austerity/Iraq/NHS for examples.