Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Scary Bear]

No.
The ability to read is, in itself, a limited gift.  You have to be able to interpret the words too.  [emoji4]

Anyway, the basic point was that referendums are not (sorry, NOT) a good way of deciding things in a modern society.

Personally, I disagree.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

 

Anyway, the basic point was that referendums are not (sorry, NOT) a good way of deciding things in a modern society.

Personally, I disagree.

 

And I agree with you, though they should be used sparingly,

[DrewDon]

There is probably adequate reason to criticise some referendums for being overly exposed to manipulation or the simplification of multifaceted, complex subjects, but candidate elections are hardly immune from such criticisms, either. Of course, no system is perfect, but I think referendums are capable of complementing parliamentary government in doses.

[welshbairn]

I prefer to hire a politician to make complex decisions for me, and then sack him if he fucks up. Having the utter morons you get in the Question Time audience allowed a vote on anything more important than what to name a public holiday is insane.

[Loondave1]

Trouble with referendums is as we have seen people vote on what they would "like" without bothering about the consequences.A referendum on whether to pay income tax would probably produce a vote to not pay and bugger the consequences.Politicians abdicate their responsibilities if they start endorsing never ending referendums.

[Scary Bear]

I prefer to hire a politician to make complex decisions for me, and then sack him if he fucks up. Having the utter morons you get in the Question Time audience allowed a vote on anything more important than what to name a public holiday is insane.

Or her. Who is your MP? Have you had cause to sack them for fucking up? If so, which particular f**k up made you want rid of them? Did your vote lead to them being 'sacked'?

Personally, I don't keep up to date with my MPs voting record so I wouldn't know if she had fucked up. Also, having never met her, I have no idea if she is competent to make decisions for me or if she's just a typical party diehard (possibly a nutter from Question Time) whose done her time and been allowed to stand.

The Question Time audience is crackpot central and it's no surprise that a lot of them are either politicians or activists.

[Scary Bear]

I prefer to hire a politician to make complex decisions for me, and then sack him if he fucks up. Having the utter morons you get in the Question Time audience allowed a vote on anything more important than what to name a public holiday is insane.

Or her. Who is your MP? Have you had cause to sack them for fucking up? If so, which particular f**k up made you want rid of them? Did your vote lead to them being 'sacked'?

Personally, I don't keep up to date with my MPs voting record so I wouldn't know if she had fucked up. Also, having never met her, I have no idea if she is competent to make decisions for me or if she's just a typical party diehard (possibly a nutter from Question Time) whose done her time and been allowed to stand.

The Question Time audience is crackpot central and it's no surprise that a lot of them are either politicians or activists.

[Fullerene]

I recall one referendum somewhere in America where the local government wanted to increase local tax by 4% to cover the increased cost of everything.
Being America, with various anti-tax people involved, somebody demanded an amendment so that the choice was:

A: Increase local tax by 4%
B: Leave it the same
C: Lower local tax by 4%

They had the referendum and guess what.  Option C won. 

[Fullerene]

I think if you had a referendum offering to double everyone's salary, you would have a lot of economists, business leaders and politicians telling you why it could never work.

However a lot of people would still vote for it anyway because it would be really nice to have the extra money and if it really wasn't possible then why did you offer the referendum in the first place.
 

[WILLIEA]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

I hope you don't mean in RC countries...

What occurs between the followers of Rome and their beads has nothing to do with me!

[WILLIEA]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

And I agree with you, though they should be used sparingly,

And for non complex decisions.

I doubt more than 5% who voted would know what Eurotron ( for example ) was

Critical analysis was definitely not applied to what the effects on the NHS would be. Multifarious, and all negative.

 

[Scary Bear]

And for non complex decisions.

I doubt more than 5% who voted would know what Eurotron ( for example ) was

Critical analysis was definitely not applied to what the effects on the NHS would be. Multifarious, and all negative.

 

 

What is Eurotron?

 

What would be an example of a non-complex issue?

 

I would suggest that only really important issues such as independence, eu membership, and the likes should warrant a referendum. The issue with the eu referendum was the lack of any sort of decent information for voters in terms of pros and cons.

[WILLIEA]

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

 

What is Eurotron?

 

What would be an example of a non-complex issue?

 

I would suggest that only really important issues such as independence, eu membership, and the likes should warrant a referendum. The issue with the eu referendum was the lack of any sort of decent information for voters in terms of pros and cons.

Eurotom, mispronounced it, sorry.

Co-operation on nuclear policy, cancer treatments among other things. 

brexit goes ahead we're locked out of the latest research & best practice.

Still! Blue passports Yeah!

[Scary Bear]

Eurotom, mispronounced it, sorry.
Co-operation on nuclear policy, cancer treatments among other things. 
brexit goes ahead we're locked out of the latest research & best practice.
Still! Blue passports Yeah!

Googled it. It's Euratom. That'll keep me awake tonight.

[WILLIEA]

3 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

 

Googled it. It's Euratom. That'll keep me awake tonight.

 

Sometimes it's easier to be stupid?

[welshbairn]

A few more regulatory bodies we'll have to duplicate instead of sharing the cost with 27 other countries, and doubling the red tape for any company that trades with the EU as well as internally.

http://senioreuropeanexperts.org/paper/brexit-eu-regulatory-agencies/

[DrewDon]

9 hours ago, Loondave1 said:

Trouble with referendums is as we have seen people vote on what they would "like" without bothering about the consequences.A referendum on whether to pay income tax would probably produce a vote to not pay and bugger the consequences.Politicians abdicate their responsibilities if they start endorsing never ending referendums.

I mean, the electorate doesn't suddenly transform into an altruistic mass when presented with an election rather than a referendum: there will be self-interested and short-termist actors regardless. 

[Antiochas III]

Switzerland seems to manage ok as a semi Direct Democracy tbf.  It's pretty much a better country than the UK in all catagories.  

[Loondave1]

I mean, the electorate doesn't suddenly transform into an altruistic mass when presented with an election rather than a referendum: there will be self-interested and short-termist actors regardless. 

An election has a myriad of potential policies promised that divide people more in their decision.Referendums are pretty black and white YES/NO stuff that elicit "tribal" type reactions." "Bring back hanging" would be an absolute cracker though,the creme de la creme of referendums..

[zidane's child]

You have to laugh. Farage spends his whole political career slating and demonising the EU, but will get a £73k a year pension from them when he retires, which he'll happily take.

"Why should my family suffer" was his exact quote on Marr yesterday.