Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

12 hours ago, welshbairn said:

International law doesn't say you should break up existing democracies against their will because of how the boundaries were formed long ago. 

International Public Law doesn't really consider whether an existing state is a democracy.

You shouldn't break up dictatorships either

As leftie critics of Tony Blair will remind you

Edited August 1, 2018 by topcat(The most tip top)

[welshbairn]

Just now, topcat(The most tip top) said:

International Public Law doesn't really consider whether an existing state is a democracy.

I think Pep is on about the UN stance in the 50's and 60's about the right to self determination of now former colonies. Presumably that included the right to remain as they were if the majority wished it.

[Loondave1]

I think Peps a haver. Let's not overthink his stupidity. If it walks and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

[doulikefish]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opinion/readers-letters/698012/foreign-seasonal-labour-is-vital-to-my-farm/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

Today's Brexit incompetence news:

• Theresa May tells Home Office to organise 'UK citizens' lanes at airports;
• Home Office says this will cost loads of money and actually make queues longer;
• Theresa May tells them to do it anyway, thus creating a perfect metaphor for Brexit.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6909834/pm-overrule-sajid-javid-brexit-lanes/

[John Lambies Doos]

Today's Brexit incompetence news:

• Theresa May tells Home Office to organise 'UK citizens' lanes at airports;
• Home Office says this will cost loads of money and actually make queues longer;
• Theresa May tells them to do it anyway, thus creating a perfect metaphor for Brexit.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6909834/pm-overrule-sajid-javid-brexit-lanes/

Will it be UK and ROI, due to common travel agreement

[harry94]

I think with the Irish debate as well, the Good Friday Agreement is something which can't be understated. It was a highly complicated framework which managed to successfully revitalise a troubled area based on the principles of cross-border cooperation.

How the hell you can really just say overnight that these issues are not of primary importance and then go even further and form a government who has a voting position influenced by one of the two communities (which is completely contradictory to the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement) is absolutely insane. I'm not saying the history isn't important but even just ignoring that, in a union of equals, throwing a part of the union into a situation where there is the potential for widespread violence and impoverishment is a completely deplorable act.

The Irish situation should have been prenegotiated before going into any referendum.

[Fullerene]

41 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

Today's Brexit incompetence news:

• Theresa May tells Home Office to organise 'UK citizens' lanes at airports;
• Home Office says this will cost loads of money and actually make queues longer;
• Theresa May tells them to do it anyway, thus creating a perfect metaphor for Brexit.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6909834/pm-overrule-sajid-javid-brexit-lanes/

To illustate

[welshbairn]

54 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

Today's Brexit incompetence news:

• Theresa May tells Home Office to organise 'UK citizens' lanes at airports;
• Home Office says this will cost loads of money and actually make queues longer;
• Theresa May tells them to do it anyway, thus creating a perfect metaphor for Brexit.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6909834/pm-overrule-sajid-javid-brexit-lanes/

Not sure if the Sun are having a subtle anti Brexit message there.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Not sure if the Sun are having a subtle anti Brexit message there.

I think the journalist certainly is:

Quote

His order came after Home Office research found separate lines would cost too much and could also create longer waiting times.

But The Sun can reveal that the PM will intervene to insist on them to produce another visual symbol of Brexit in practice.

 

[Baxter Parp]

Faisal Islam‏Verified account @faisalislam

NEW: Sky News obtains under Freedom of Information 30 studies on Brexit impact by local councils across the UK making contingencies and expressing concerns as Brexit clock ticks down, from social care, to food/medicines availability, border checks, to “social unrest”...

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

I like that the only positive is reduced demand for services because everyone will leave the area.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Carl Cort's Hamstring

[John Lambies Doos]

I think with the Irish debate as well, the Good Friday Agreement is something which can't be understated. It was a highly complicated framework which managed to successfully revitalise a troubled area based on the principles of cross-border cooperation.

How the hell you can really just say overnight that these issues are not of primary importance and then go even further and form a government who has a voting position influenced by one of the two communities (which is completely contradictory to the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement) is absolutely insane. I'm not saying the history isn't important but even just ignoring that, in a union of equals, throwing a part of the union into a situation where there is the potential for widespread violence and impoverishment is a completely deplorable act.

The Irish situation should have been prenegotiated before going into any referendum.

This, so this. The GFA was thrown aside by the British as soon as the Torys packed and bought off the DUP. All neutrality gone. It's really should not be understated how shameful that was.

 

[zidane's child]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

This, so this. The GFA was thrown aside by the British as soon as the Torys packed and bought off the DUP. All neutrality gone. It's really should not be understated how shameful that was.

 

Party before country with that lot!

Always, always

[RedRob72]

I think with the Irish debate as well, the Good Friday Agreement is something which can't be understated. It was a highly complicated framework which managed to successfully revitalise a troubled area based on the principles of cross-border cooperation.
How the hell you can really just say overnight that these issues are not of primary importance and then go even further and form a government who has a voting position influenced by one of the two communities (which is completely contradictory to the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement) is absolutely insane. I'm not saying the history isn't important but even just ignoring that, in a union of equals, throwing a part of the union into a situation where there is the potential for widespread violence and impoverishment is a completely deplorable act.
The Irish situation should have been prenegotiated before going into any referendum.

The benefits of hindsight I guess, the Government didn’t foresee a vote to leave in any circumstances, it’s still a good post however. Would anyone on either side of the border want to go back to the days before the GFA?

[JamieThomas]

3 hours ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

I like that the only positive is reduced demand for services because everyone will leave the area.

I read it as folk going toes up rather fucking off.

[Bandstand]

8 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The UK was far from being the first state to implement emergency powers to combat terrorism and any such powers applied to all of the population and not just one section of it, any shoot to kill policy that was perceived by some to exist de facto was never an officially sanctioned one, and the RoI was giving passports to people in or from NI long before the GFA. Could we try to keep things factual on here?

The first wave of internment saw 2000 Catholics rounded up a nod not a single protestant though it was loyalist paramilitaries that set off the first bomb,killed the first policeman and killed the first soldier

Hardly a policy that was evenhanded or just in its implementation 

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, Bandstand said:

The first wave of internment saw...

 

Adding "first wave" is a neat way to skate around the fact that Loyalists were also interned and that internment wasn't just applied to "Catholics".  What I responded to was a statement that implied that only "Catholics" were subject to internment, which was not the case both legally and in how the policy was actively applied. I made no comment as to whether the policy was evenhanded or just, but would point out that Eamon de Valera also used emergency powers of that type against Republican extremists, so it wasn't just something that happened in Northern Ireland .

[Bandstand]

12 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Adding "first wave" is a neat way to skate around the fact that Loyalists were also interned and that internment wasn't just applied to "Catholics".  What I responded to was a statement that implied that only "Catholics" were subject to internment, which was not the case both legally and in how the policy was actively applied. I made no comment as to whether the policy was evenhanded or just, but would point out that Eamon de Valera also used emergency powers of that type against Republican extremists, so it wasn't just something that happened in Northern Ireland .

De Valera interned actual Republicans

Many of those Catholics that were interned in the seventies simply had the misfortune to share a name with a Republican or had a police file from 40 years before

The fact is that Loyalist paramilitaries were using violence against the state as well as indiscriminately killing Catholics  and it was only the government realizing that their policy was driving nationalists into the arms of Republican paramilitaries that saw loyalists also get interned

[welshbairn]

The "Shoot to kill" scandal was nonsense. We're not talking sharpshooters from the Westerns here, if it's necessary for a squaddie to shoot someone you don't aim for grazing an arm or a bullet through a hat, you aim dead centre or for the head, otherwise they shouldn't be shooting.  Snipers may have been told something different but I doubt there is a record of a stated policy for the regular army, it would be daft.