Dawson Park Boy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Detournement said: From a Guardian article today. The UK population is actually more than 2 million greater than estimated just due to EU citizens and was probably 3 million greater on that basis before Brexit. Crazy stuff. Exactly. Thats why the new Digital Borders system will be up and running by 2025. Not before time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Sandy - a little context. The UK consumes around 1mn tons of beef per annum. At present we import 1500 tons from Australia. If this doubles or triples, then we are only talking minuscule quantities compared to our consumption. In addition we only produce around 75% of what we consume which means we need to import around 250000 tons per annum. I think you are overstating things somewhat. Do you get your figures from the poor crofter from Skye? What are the equivalent figures for lamb? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, coprolite said: What are the equivalent figures for lamb? What hb fails to mention that there is a reason the beef exports are so low 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, coprolite said: What are the equivalent figures for lamb? Uk consumes around 300000 tons of lamb of which 100000 is imported, albeit our production is roughly equivalent to our consumption. Imports and exports are roughly similar. Australia currently exports around 10000 tons to the Uk which, again, is very small. For Australia, Asian countries are their principal markets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Meat consumption by ordinary people is going to be forced down massively by governments in the next 20 years anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 What hb fails to mention that there is a reason the beef exports are so low https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hormone-injected-beef-trade-deal-australia-b1851531.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, jakedee said: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hormone-injected-beef-trade-deal-australia-b1851531.html What I can’t really understand is why we can’t just leave it to consumers to buy what they want? As long as the chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef or whatever is labelled accordingly then I don’t see a problem. Exactly the same with genetically modified crops. Let the customer decide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Somehow I doubt if hormone injected beef will be sold in Fortnum and Mason's. More likely it'll end up in 99p shepherd's pies, mixed in with the horse. That's always assuming it is labelled of course... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Somehow I doubt if hormone injected beef will be sold in Fortnum and Mason's. More likely it'll end up in 99p shepherd's pies, mixed in with the horse. That's always assuming it is labelled of course... I had camel meat once. Really gave me the hump. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 What I can’t really understand is why we can’t just leave it to consumers to buy what they want? As long as the chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef or whatever is labelled accordingly then I don’t see a problem. Exactly the same with genetically modified crops. Let the customer decide.The problem is, it's not. Do you check every ingredient of everything you eat?I recommend something I stumbled over on YouTube. It's called USA v's UK.It compares the two countries . One of the comparisons was fast food.UK McDonald's fries(in this context) ingredients:- potatoes,salt,oil.US McDonald's:- as above plus a large number of other "additives"It's not as easy as you believe to make "informed choices" especially when it'll be no doubt cheaper than non processed products. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, jakedee said: The problem is, it's not. Do you check every ingredient of everything you eat? I recommend something I stumbled over on YouTube. It's called USA v's UK. It compares the two countries . One of the comparisons was fast food. UK McDonald's fries(in this context) ingredients:- potatoes,salt,oil. US McDonald's:- as above plus a large number of other "additives" It's not as easy as you believe to make "informed choices" especially when it'll be no doubt cheaper than non processed products. Over the years I’ve spent a lot of time in the US and I can only say that the food, in general, was top notch. Maybe I’m easy pleased or maybe I just dislike fast food wherever it’s sold. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Detournement said: Meat consumption by ordinary people is going to be forced down massively by governments in the next 20 years anyway. Fish prices seemed to have rocketed lately too. 2 small Mackarel were just under £6 in Morrisons the other day. Used to get them for a quid each. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, dirty dingus said: Fish prices seemed to have rocketed lately too. 2 small Mackarel were just under £6 in Morrisons the other day. Used to get them for a quid each. Maybe change your supermarket. Edited May 23, 2021 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Uk consumes around 300000 tons of lamb of which 100000 is imported, albeit our production is roughly equivalent to our consumption. Imports and exports are roughly similar. Australia currently exports around 10000 tons to the Uk which, again, is very small. For Australia, Asian countries are their principal markets. The worry is how those numbers might change though. Those sound more finely balanced than the beef numbers. 2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said: What I can’t really understand is why we can’t just leave it to consumers to buy what they want? As long as the chlorinated chicken, hormone injected beef or whatever is labelled accordingly then I don’t see a problem. Exactly the same with genetically modified crops. Let the customer decide. Trading standards are a form of collective action and a main function of government. It's also a very useful non tarrif barrier that we can keep for protectionist purposes if that's what we want to do. Kind of see your point on the labelling but i'm more comfortable with a slightly paternalistic state that protects its weakest citizens. The people who are least equipped to understand and assess the risks are also likely to be among those most tempted by lower prices. But part of me would like the option to buy a massive US style t bone that won't fit on the plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, coprolite said: The worry is how those numbers might change though. Those sound more finely balanced than the beef numbers. Trading standards are a form of collective action and a main function of government. It's also a very useful non tarrif barrier that we can keep for protectionist purposes if that's what we want to do. Kind of see your point on the labelling but i'm more comfortable with a slightly paternalistic state that protects its weakest citizens. The people who are least equipped to understand and assess the risks are also likely to be among those most tempted by lower prices. But part of me would like the option to buy a massive US style t bone that won't fit on the plate. I might be wrong but I think hormone injected beef is disallowed within the deal. The point is that the NFU and the poor wee crofter from Skye are egging this up out of all proportion. Always remember that this deal will be great for Scotch whisky. Swings and roundabouts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: I might be wrong but I think hormone injected beef is disallowed within the deal. The point is that the NFU and the poor wee crofter from Skye are egging this up out of all proportion. Always remember that this deal will be great for Scotch whisky. Swings and roundabouts. In other words, you need to be steaming to eat this hormone injected beef. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 55 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: I might be wrong but I think hormone injected beef is disallowed within the deal. The point is that the NFU and the poor wee crofter from Skye are egging this up out of all proportion. Always remember that this deal will be great for Scotch whisky. Swings and roundabouts. As far as i know nothing has been agreed on food standards. The uk govt has insinuated that that's how they'll protect UK farmers, but I wouldn't trust a cast iron guarantee from that lot, never mind a nod and a wink. It's always swings and roundabouts. There's going to be winners and losers on every trade deal. There should be aggregate price reductions/welfare increases across the economy. There is a question of distribution of those gains and losses and whether the losses are ones we can afford. In theory we can deploy the labour no longer required to herd sheep to help with the increased whisky production. In practice, there will be unemployed shepherds and overworked distillers with any gains expropriated to capital returns. So it's not exactly swings and roundabouts. If you want to use that analogy it's like a swing with a brick wall on one side. The NFU absolutely should be sticking up for their members interests. The most affected will be the marginal hill farmers who won't be the big landowners or agribusiness that can stick up for themselves. Sneering at one of them isn't a good look. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 10 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Sandy - a little context. The UK consumes around 1mn tons of beef per annum. At present we import 1500 tons from Australia. If this doubles or triples, then we are only talking minuscule quantities compared to our consumption. In addition we only produce around 75% of what we consume which means we need to import around 250000 tons per annum. I think you are overstating things somewhat. Do you get your figures from the poor crofter from Skye? The Deal is a major plus for the Independence movement, given that if westminster goes ahead, (Gove is against the deal), obviously many Scottish farmers are going to be hit financially, it seems that westminster is hell bent on losing the traditional farming and fishing tory votes since Brexit. It's more than possible that they will come over to the Independence side. More Grist to the Mill for the SNP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) What I see is the UK securing a mediocre deal from a position of weakness - and pissing off one of the groups that was at the emotional centre of the LEAVE campaign into the bargain. Are there many more "win-win" deals to follow? ******************* Moving Off-Topic Ms. Truss came unstuck this morning on the radio when after claiming the Govts. recent review on Racial Disparity was well supported she was unable to name anyone who had actually done so! Edited May 24, 2021 by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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