Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Crùbag]

24 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

So you want the duplicitous Westminster to stop sending the block grant to Scotland? 

I support real independence, outside the EU as well as the UK.

Scotland will have to negotiate its own independence deal with the British government. Such divisive rhetoric will only infuriate the Unionist parties and reduce our chances of getting the best deal.  

 

Fair position to have, though not mine. However, we should be able to debate the EU, and vote on it if desire is there, on our own merits. Not Farage's.

[mjw]

^^^^^
Rattled

You'll know when he's really rattled.
He'll post a weird as f**k picture and disappear for a while.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 hour ago, Crùbag said:

 

Fair position to have, though not mine. However, we should be able to debate the EU, and vote on it if desire is there, on our own merits. Not Farage's.

It's the same position as 36% of voters who voted SNP in the 2015 General Election.

See page 7 in the massive poll for Lord Ashcroft - http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf. The Scottish sample size was similar to a normal opinion poll in the Herald or Scotsman.

The SNP is ignoring or dismissing the wishes of 2 in 5 of its voters! Are they must be racist Little Englanders too? In reality, they want real independence and self-government too. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Bishop Briggs

[git-intae-thum]

13 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

It's the same position as 36% of voters who voted SNP in the 2015 General Election.

See page 7 in the massive poll for Lord Ashcroft - http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf. The Scottish sample size was similar to a normal opinion poll in the Herald or Scotsman.

The SNP is ignoring or dismissing the wishes of 2 in 5 of its voters! Are they must be racist Little Englanders too? In reality, they want real independence and self-government too. 

There is an argument to be made for a Scotland independent of the UK and EU.

 But in order to have that discussion, we must have independence from the UK first.

Then Scotland can hold its own debate. 

[George Parr]

6 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

There is an argument to be made for a Scotland independent of the UK and EU.

 But in order to have that discussion, we must have independence from the UK first.

Then Scotland can hold its own debate. 

Yes, the priority is that Scotland extricate itself from the more immediate Union. The debate on Europe can follow. 

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said:

So you want the duplicitous Westminster to stop sending the block grant to Scotland? 

I support real independence, outside the EU as well as the UK.

Scotland will have to negotiate its own independence deal with the British government. Such divisive rhetoric will only infuriate the Unionist parties and reduce our chances of getting the best deal.  

 

1 hour ago, Crùbag said:

 

Fair position to have, though not mine. However, we should be able to debate the EU, and vote on it if desire is there, on our own merits. Not Farage's.

decent post

2 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

There is an argument to be made for a Scotland independent of the UK and EU.

 But in order to have that discussion, we must have independence from the UK first.

Then Scotland can hold its own debate. 

We all have our wish-list post independence.

Surely it's one step at a time?

[Wee Willie]

7 minutes ago, Consolidate said:

Yes, the priority is that Scotland extricate itself from the more immediate Union. The debate on Europe can follow. 

My point exactly

[Ross.]

1 minute ago, Wee Willie said:

We all have our wish-list post independence.

Surely it's one step at a time?

This is pretty much my thinking on it. Independence from the UK is the first, and for me most important step.

Posted on here before that I would see Scotland better off out of both unions, but I feel that the EU offers more protection for Scotlands needs than the UK will. For me the worst case scenario for Scotland is in the UK and out of the EU.

[Wee Willie]

6 minutes ago, Ross. said:

This is pretty much my thinking on it. Independence from the UK is the first, and for me most important step.

Posted on here before that I would see Scotland better off out of both unions, but I feel that the EU offers more protection for Scotlands needs than the UK will. For me the worst case scenario for Scotland is in the UK and out of the EU.

I agree.

I think we should all strive for independence then come back on here and argue the toss as to which way we go

[Crùbag]

2 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

It's the same position as 36% of voters who voted SNP in the 2015 General Election.

See page 7 in the massive poll for Lord Ashcroft - http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf. The Scottish sample size was similar to a normal opinion poll in the Herald or Scotsman.

The SNP is ignoring or dismissing the wishes of 2 in 5 of its voters! Are they must be racist Little Englanders too? In reality, they want real independence and self-government too. 

Aye, sure. It doesn't negate the need for us to debate the EU on our own terms after independence. Though, while there is a significant body within the Yes-vote for Indy outside of the EU, Indy within EU is still the most popular option. It will also win over many thousands of EU citizens to our cause.

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

14 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

Aye, sure. It doesn't negate the need for us to debate the EU on our own terms after independence. Though, while there is a significant body within the Yes-vote for Indy outside of the EU, Indy within EU is still the most popular option. It will also win over many thousands of EU citizens to our cause.

 

That's a surprise

Those percentages are only 2% off from what they'd be if there was no correlation whatsoever

[doulikefish]

Hsbc on the move

http://martini.heraldscotland.com/business/15031342.HSBC_set_to_shift_1_000_jobs_to_Paris_over_UK_departure_from_single_market/?ref=rss

[Jacksgranda]

5 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Hsbc on the move

http://martini.heraldscotland.com/business/15031342.HSBC_set_to_shift_1_000_jobs_to_Paris_over_UK_departure_from_single_market/?ref=rss

20% of HSBC on the move. Perhaps

[Ross.]

6 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Hsbc on the move

http://martini.heraldscotland.com/business/15031342.HSBC_set_to_shift_1_000_jobs_to_Paris_over_UK_departure_from_single_market/?ref=rss

Wouldn't be a massive surprise. I know CITI have moved staff from London to Dublin in the last few months also. Not sure if Brexit had much to do with that but it is something that would likely have figured at least a little.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 hours ago, Ross. said:

This is pretty much my thinking on it. Independence from the UK is the first, and for me most important step.

Posted on here before that I would see Scotland better off out of both unions, but I feel that the EU offers more protection for Scotlands needs than the UK will. For me the worst case scenario for Scotland is in the UK and out of the EU.

That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. 

 

[Ross.]

5 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. 

 

If Scotland votes to exit the UK within the Brexit time table, I think the EU would likely do what it can to fudge some form of continuity agreement.

[HTG]

21 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

One of the biggest issues for Indyref 2 would be the voter apathy - how many referendums, elections or others have the Scottish voting public had to show up for in the last 5 years?

The big swing factor will be the attitude of the non Scots. In the UK referendum, non UK citizens were not able to vote. In the Scottish referendum they were. Surely the vast majority voted No in the Scottish referendum to preserve EU guarantees.  Even if May guaranteed them the right to stay now, they wouldn't necessarily trust that commitment in the longer term - not when you know that EU membership is pretty much a given for an independent Scotland. 

Much of the indigenous No vote will stay as they are - the over 60s who fear everything and those with a disproportionate allegiance to the Queen on account of their football team and an enjoyment of marching. And of course those who really, really want out of the EU anyway. 

[Crùbag]

23 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. 

 

 

Do you know that for sure? We're already members and the anger within the EU over Brexit is obvious. If we gained independence before Brexit - which could take years - then it's likely the EU would welcome us. Though, as you've said before, surely you'd be happy with this situation - independence outwith the EU?

[jakedee]

That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start.

This constant reference to the budget deficit being a problem has me asking,has anyone given a figure what the actual deficit would be? Once the historical debts and the UK's assets have been divied up, what is the figure?

[Jambomo]

Boris being Boris again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38658998