Londonwell Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, welshbairn said: They aren't all about sectarianism and flegs, they're very keen on money too. See Paisley Jnr's 5* all inclusive holidays and this book coming out tomorrow. They aren’t pragmatist’s, they’re ideologues. They’re unionist to their very core and the narrow view they have on that over takes any other consideration. Edited October 17, 2019 by Londonwell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, tintax said: Media reporting that it will be a choice between this and no deal, in parliament on Saturday. Which is in fact no choice atall. That's what Rees Mogg has told the house he wants, but the Speaker has told him to GTF. There will be amendments, likely one to put the deal to a referendum. Think it will be close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 She was a terrible, stubborn and basically shite politician, but May must be spewing seeing Boris basically taking her deal and possibly getting it done. If there is a second referendum amendment, surely then the DUP might back this now as the Union is far more important to them than any Brexit deal at all. As for the DUP, Carson had it summed up many years ago “What a fool I was. I was only a puppet. And so was Ulster, and so was Ireland. In the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power.” The DUP's ineptness has moved a united Ireland from a pipe dream to almost certainty in the near future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 One of the long standing arguments against the EU was the bureaucracy and paperwork (one I sympathise with!) Yet the customs and VAT arrangements are going to be a costly bureaucratic nightmare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 BJ making this a confidence vote so ERG types etc will lose the whip and won't be able to stand as a Tory at the next election. So we'll see if Francois, Bill Cash are true to their beliefs or just gobshites like JRM, Boris, Gove etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I can see lots of items saying DUP won’t support this deal but can’t as yet find anything which confirms they will vote against it. I’ve seen lots of assumptions that they will vote against but nothing directly from them. Given their strongly held views abstaining in the vote would seem bizarre though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kejan said: She was a terrible, stubborn and basically shite politician, but May must be spewing seeing Boris basically taking her deal and possibly getting it done. If there is a second referendum amendment, surely then the DUP might back this now as the Union is far more important to them than any Brexit deal at all. As for the DUP, Carson had it summed up many years ago “What a fool I was. I was only a puppet. And so was Ulster, and so was Ireland. In the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power.” The DUP's ineptness has moved a united Ireland from a pipe dream to almost certainty in the near future. Nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) I've been listening to extensive coverage and analysis of the deal on Radio Ulster and I'm none the wiser. I think it could be good economically for NI, but bad constitutionally. However, business opinion seems to be split, some think it's good but one of the head honchos in Ulster Bank thinks it's worse than May's deal. I think it's better than no deal, Steve Aiken, currently the only contender for the UUP leader, says he would now go for Remain rather than this deal (obviously No Deal is out the window for him, too). Edited October 17, 2019 by Jacksgranda sllepnig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Not particularly likely on any timeline under 20 years. The BJ deal actually looks quite a bit better for Unionism than the TM one was, but the DUP will do what they need to do to not be outflanked by a more hardline alternative as that's the core of their electoral base. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Jacksgranda said: Nonsense. Possibly, but a bit like Scotland - it'll be the middle-ground- who will decide the future. Ireland has long shed its image of being backwards, conservative, the Catholic has truly lost any grip it had had on a chunk of the population with the gay marriage and abortion referendums of last year ; and becoming quite the progressive country. The old joke of ''you'll know which part of Ireland you are in by the state of the roads'' has gone the other way. For younger people, Ireland isn't that scary place that some unionists fear. And like Scotland it won't be the hardcore nationalist or unionist that decide any potential referendum it'll be the middle classes and where their rights and money will be best served. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said: I can see lots of items saying DUP won’t support this deal but can’t as yet find anything which confirms they will vote against it. I’ve seen lots of assumptions that they will vote against but nothing directly from them. Given their strongly held views abstaining in the vote would seem bizarre though. Government's warning them that No Deal would likely trigger a Border Poll under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. Edited October 17, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kejan said: Possibly, but a bit like Scotland - it'll be the middle-ground- who will decide the future. Ireland has long shed its image of being backwards, conservative, the Catholic has truly lost any grip it had had on a chunk of the population with the gay marriage and abortion referendums of last year ; and becoming quite the progressive country. The old joke of ''you'll know which part of Ireland you are in by the state of the roads'' has gone the other way. For younger people, Ireland isn't that scary place that some unionists fear. And like Scotland it won't be the hardcore nationalist or unionist that decide any potential referendum it'll be the middle classes and where their rights and money will be best served. The money will swing it more than "rights". What "rights" are you thinking of, particularly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Sinn Fein welcome the deal as the "least worst option", probably to wind up the DUP. And Juncker says it's this deal or no deal. The EU27 would have to agree with him on that though, could be bluster to push the deal through Parliament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Guardian reporting that Juncker has ruled out a further extension. Can’t see it elsewhere. Don't know if he has the authority but could be a game changer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Guardian reporting that Juncker has ruled out a further extension. Can’t see it elsewhere. Don't know if he has the authority but could be a game changer. He gave the comment to the press pack waiting for him at the EU summit. Eta. he doesn't alone have the ability to enforce that but is a powerful voice obviously. Edited October 17, 2019 by Londonwell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Ross. said: So if parliament rejects then we have to ask the EU to extend again when there is likely no chance of substantial change to the current agreement? Can't see the EU extending further in those circumstances. Hiya Mr Juncker, hiya pal! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Londonwell said: He gave the comment to the press pack waiting for him at the EU summit. Eta. he doesn't alone have the ability to enforce that but is a powerful voice obviously. Been listening to LBC and heard that. He also shouted at Matt Frei when he tried to butt in "I am speaking" He rows back a bit though and says he is not in charge. The press are going to spin this as his deal vs no deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Someone put Joanna Cherry on suicide watch. If this is true FBPE Twitter is going to meltdown. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Londonwell said: He gave the comment to the press pack waiting for him at the EU summit. Eta. he doesn't alone have the ability to enforce that but is a powerful voice obviously. I’ve now seen it reported elsewhere and seen the words. Wouldn’t take at 100% face value. If anything it might reinforce case in Westminster for accepting deal with confirmatory referendum. Don't see the EU27 rejecting that if Remain was the alternative option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Bit from DUP's statement that indicates they might abstain or even vote for the deal on Saturday if their votes are needed, and fight for the changes they want further down the legislative path. Quote Saturday’s vote in parliament on the proposals will only be the start of a long process to get any withdrawal agreement bill through the House of Commons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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