Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Granny Danger]

Quoted from The Guardian.  What part of this statement is unreasonable or difficult to understand?

Clément Beaune, France’s new Europe minister, agreed. “The British want tariff-free access to the single market, but without any conditions on social, environmental, labour, health, safety standards,” he said this week. “That’s unacceptable.”

[bendan]

23 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Quoted from The Guardian.  What part of this statement is unreasonable or difficult to understand?

Clément Beaune, France’s new Europe minister, agreed. “The British want tariff-free access to the single market, but without any conditions on social, environmental, labour, health, safety standards,” he said this week. “That’s unacceptable.”

It's a reasonable statement, but is it actually true? Both sides seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the other. The UK seems willing to agree to non-regression on standards, and would probably be willing to accept mechanisms for mutually raising them, but it says it won't accept dynamic alignment.

[Academically Deficient]

Lovely pot/kettle cameo here.

As pathetic as it was predictable. Blame the Germans.

The funniest part is the pearl-clutching outrage that Merkel doesn't believe a word Johnson says. I mean, really !!

[Dan Steele]

And there's the deadline extension to the deadline being extended.

[Granny Danger]

15 minutes ago, bendan said:

It's a reasonable statement, but is it actually true? Both sides seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the other. The UK seems willing to agree to non-regression on standards, and would probably be willing to accept mechanisms for mutually raising them, but it says it won't accept dynamic alignment.

Non- regression without dynamic alignment is meaningless.

[John Lambies Doos]

Bet ya nothing announced today. We are ramping up preparations but will continue to talk blah blah blah... Laura & Beth ( oof she's been binned) saying next 48hrs in crucial.. blah blah blah....

Nap.. Told ya, it's getting embarrassing now. Loads of people losing credibility

[Guest Jedi]

Yep, so the 'final, final' deadline was last Sunday, then today, now......presumably next Sunday, and on it goes.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I wonder if any British cartoonist will have the cojones to sketch Ursula Von Der Leyen gently coaxing Boris Johnson to come down from the parapet of Westminster Bridge. Because be assured that is what's now happening.

[welshbairn]

25 minutes ago, bendan said:

It's a reasonable statement, but is it actually true? Both sides seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the other. The UK seems willing to agree to non-regression on standards, and would probably be willing to accept mechanisms for mutually raising them, but it says it won't accept dynamic alignment.

Since the details are just being selectively leaked by each side, we can't be sure, but my understanding of it is that if the EU changes its rules, and the UK doesn't want to go along with it, the terms of trade may have to be changed. This seems blindingly obvious to me, but Boris doesn't like it.

[Michael W]

45 minutes ago, bendan said:

I think people overstate the benefits of 'a deal'. We'd still be out of the single market and customs union and would have the costs and burdens of filling out customs forms etc. there would still be chaos at the ports in Jan, and our truck drivers would not get the freedom to drive around EU like they can at present. It's leaving the single market that is going to cause the biggest impact. Johnson might think politically no-deal is best as the hit we would take either way can be blamed on the EU rather than the decision to leave the single market.

I don't disagree with that. The primary benefit is that EU imports won't be subject to tariffs and UK exporters won't be at a competitive disadvantage as a result. I think a lot of these benefits are "lost" on a lot of people, but anything to avoid increase in prices or UK exporters facing additional issues are welcome. 

The disaster stuff about queues at the border etc? That's happening either way if we manage it poorly. Unfortunately the impact of covid on port capacity combined with Brexit stockpiling has already seen British ports jammed, so we're screwed there before we even start. 

36 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Quoted from The Guardian.  What part of this statement is unreasonable or difficult to understand?

Clément Beaune, France’s new Europe minister, agreed. “The British want tariff-free access to the single market, but without any conditions on social, environmental, labour, health, safety standards,” he said this week. “That’s unacceptable.”

The UK is however being asked for more than other FTA countries within the proposed deal. In some cases the moaning is therefore justified. 

However, this was always going to happen. The UK leaving the EU is a threat - give the UK a good deal and other Member States will be looking at their EU budget contributions and start wondering whether they might also be better off leaving as well. Similarly, companies are very unlikely to start moving their operations to Canada or South Korea etc to trade with zero tariffs but take advantage of more favourable Direct Tax regimes. The EU already has Switzerland which does this, much to its annoyance, and certainly doesn't want the UK offering another potential outlet for EU companies to move their operations to either. 

In isolation, one might consider it unfair, but from the EU's perspective it's necessary to prevent disintegration and to stop EU companies moving to the UK if a favourable environment can be provided. In many cases the UK already provides a pretty favourable environment compared with many EU Member States. 

We were never getting a good deal for the above reasons, whatever the Brexiters might have said. I think deep down most of them know this as well - they simply aren't bothered and are themselves comfortable with no deal. Selling no deal and tariffs on goods was never going to win a referendum, though. 

Oh look, another pointless extension! 

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I don't disagree with that. The primary benefit is that EU imports won't be subject to tariffs and UK exporters won't be at a competitive disadvantage as a result. I think a lot of these benefits are "lost" on a lot of people, but anything to avoid increase in prices or UK exporters facing additional issues are welcome. 

The disaster stuff about queues at the border etc? That's happening either way if we manage it poorly. Unfortunately the impact of covid on port capacity combined with Brexit stockpiling has already seen British ports jammed, so we're screwed there before we even start. 

The UK is however being asked for more than other FTA countries within the proposed deal. In some cases the moaning is therefore justified. 

However, this was always going to happen. The UK leaving the EU is a threat - give the UK a good deal and other Member States will be looking at their EU budget contributions and start wondering whether they might also be better off leaving as well. Similarly, companies are very unlikely to start moving their operations to Canada or South Korea etc to trade with zero tariffs but take advantage of more favourable Direct Tax regimes. The EU already has Switzerland which does this, much to its annoyance, and certainly doesn't want the UK offering another potential outlet for EU companies to move their operations to either. 

In isolation, one might consider it unfair, but from the EU's perspective it's necessary to prevent disintegration and to stop EU companies moving to the UK if a favourable environment can be provided. In many cases the UK already provides a pretty favourable environment compared with many EU Member States. 

We were never getting a good deal for the above reasons, whatever the Brexiters might have said. I think deep down most of them know this as well - they simply aren't bothered and are themselves comfortable with no deal. Selling no deal and tariffs on goods was never going to win a referendum, though. 

Oh look, another pointless extension! 

More to do with size of economy and proximity.

[John Lambies Doos]

This could be the beginning of the end of the EU.

[dirty dingus]

See next week if there is a deal and it has to get ratified can Wallonia or some other regional council hold it up or block it for the shits and giggles? Or have the 27 signed up to go with the EU negotiators? This could drag on for months if not years.

 

[Granny Danger]

Has Johnson started tweeting in FULL CAPS YET?

[Guest Jedi]

Would just take one of the 27 to veto, or hold it up, yes.

[strichener]

Looks like a win for the UK.  The EU agreeing to go the extra mile.  This was an improvement over the kilometer that the EU had suggested. 

[John Lambies Doos]

It is a win by UK tbf. EU bricking it, they are going to have to hold here or every country will want to leave

[Hedgecutter]

What are the odds on the 1st Jan deadline slipping as well if they evidently feel that something has to be agreed here? 

[John Lambies Doos]

What are the odds on the 1st Jan deadline slipping as well if they evidently feel that something has to be agreed here? 

Ask@Welshbairn. He's running a book

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Ask@Welshbairn. He's running a book

Book closed at midnight. I wouldn't be surprised if they agree to put off some matters of disagreement to sort out later, and keep things going as they are. Boris will wave a big treaty to show we've got a deal on his own terms, when in reality we've agreed to a further extension for all practical purposes.

Edited December 13, 2020 by welshbairn