Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Jacksgranda]

They have a legal document which is valid until it expires. What they do after that is entirely up to them. (The prudent course of action should they wish to remain in Spain would have been to put into action whatever was required to remain there in future, of course.) So, no, not GIRUThem from me.

[Pocketman]

49 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

And?

From what I read of the original news report (about Spanish residents being refused re-entry to Spain) most (if not all) had the requisite paperwork to prove their residency.

If the roles were reversed and EU nationals resident in Britain were refused entry, would there be GIRUThem posts? More likely outrage and handwringing from the same posters currently wetting themselves with delight at the plight of others..

I consider that the vast majority of EU nationals living in the UK would not vote for their country to leave the EU should their country of origin have had such a referendum. None of the European nationals I have encountered in the UK share the same jingoist exceptionalism that many UK expats seem to proudly trumpet. 

I have not seen any figures that can definitively cover the number of UK (European) expats who voted for Brexit and whilst I would hope that many would vote for the UK to remain in the EU in order for them to continue to enjoy their current lifestyle, there is sufficient evidence to show that a sizeable chunk will have voted for Brexit with the assumption their expat (or migrant!) lifestyle would be uninterrupted. Hence the GIRU attitude is appropriately directed at them. 

[Jacksgranda]

And how many of "them" were in the original news story?

(If the original post had contained the caveat "and if they voted for Brexit" fair enough to GIRUThem. But it didn't).

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

It mostly just reads as underpaid and undertrained border/airline staff not knowing the rules and just erring on the side of caution by dingying folk rather than any premeditated intention to make lives hard for Brits in this situation. My pals who live in continental Europe are not really that interested in the UK or Brexit, it's old news to them. Other than a few places like Magaluf or Prague where I'm sure the locals are delighted at the opportunity to make life unpleasant for the largely unpleasant Brits who visit these places, I don't really think there's much appetite for making the lives of ordinary folk from Britain difficult.

They were making life difficult for folk who actually stay there.

[coprolite]

No idea how reliable this is but it seems probable. Expats about 50% less brexity than uk residents. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-referendum-three-quarters-of-british-expats-back-staying-in-eu-a3269901.html%3famp

[Jacksgranda]

14 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Yes, but I don't think it's a deliberate company/national policy for airline/immigration staff to do so. It's the middle of a pandemic, a week after a deal was cobbled together and these folk probably just haven't been given clear training.

Spain not ready for Brexit, then.

[Jacksgranda]

There wouldn't be the same blase/gleeful attitude if this happened the other way round. "They've had 4 years to get ready. Bigots. Gammons. Xenephobes. Racists." and so on and so forth.

(Not that I actually disagree with you about the actual numbers.)

Edited January 5, 2021 by Jacksgranda
Sleppnig

[John Lambies Doos]

Ha ha ha

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0105/1187807-marks-spencer-france/

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

It mostly just reads as underpaid and undertrained border/airline staff not knowing the rules and just erring on the side of caution by dingying folk rather than any premeditated intention to make lives hard for Brits in this situation. 

Pretty much. 

Airlines are fined heavily if they carry passengers into a country without the right paperwork to enter and then subsequently have to remove said passengers from the country concerned as a matter of priority. From what I can tell the passengers were incorrectly denied boarding and the fault was with the airline for not having the right information available to their staff. 

It is obviously bad that someone has been denied boarding incorrectly, but I doubt anyone wants to have to go and have a chat with their boss about that passenger they let on who entered a country without the right documents and now the airline has been fined heavily for it. Certainly doesn't seem malicious. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The underlying assumption is that just because they are an ex-pat they voted for Brexit.

It's like saying all old people voted Leave or voted No - a lazy assumption.

I think they are perfectly entitled to complain here because it's a fuckup on the part of the Spanish authorities.

[Jacksgranda]

37 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Ha ha ha

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0105/1187807-marks-spencer-france/

Let them eat frogs.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The underlying assumption is that just because they are an ex-pat they voted for Brexit.

It's like saying all old people voted Leave or voted No - a lazy assumption.

I think they are perfectly entitled to complain here because it's a fuckup on the part of the Spanish authorities.

Of course all expats won't have voted for Brexit, but those who didn't will be more difficult to identify as they are happy to assimilate and adapt in their country of choice. The flip side of that is the considerable number who are intent on experiencing Little Britain but with better weather. If you were a telly reporter which one would you seek out for a sound bite ? I'd estimate a 75/25 split.

[Michael W]

49 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The underlying assumption is that just because they are an ex-pat they voted for Brexit.

It's like saying all old people voted Leave or voted No - a lazy assumption.

I think they are perfectly entitled to complain here because it's a fuckup on the part of the Spanish authorities.

In the examples I saw it was the airlines refusing to carry them despite the passenger presenting with the residency documentation approved by Spain. 

The passengers are right to complain and hopefully will be compensated by the airlines. 

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The underlying assumption is that just because they are an ex-pat they voted for Brexit.

It's like saying all old people voted Leave or voted No - a lazy assumption.

I think they are perfectly entitled to complain here because it's a fuckup on the part of the Spanish authorities.

I would have assumed that the majority of British people who had made the choice to retire abroad would have voted Remain.

[coprolite]

57 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Let them eat frogs.

They won't be just any frogs

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The underlying assumption is that just because they are an ex-pat they voted for Brexit.

It's like saying all old people voted Leave or voted No - a lazy assumption.

I think they are perfectly entitled to complain here because it's a fuckup on the part of the Spanish authorities.

Of course all expats won't have voted for Brexit, but those who didn't will be more difficult to identify as they are happy to assimilate and adapt in their country of choice. The flip side of that is the considerable number who are intent on experiencing Little Britain but with better weather. If you were a telly reporter which one would you seek out for a sound bite ? I'd estimate a 75/25 split.

 

I was an expat in southern Spain for a couple of years and would guess that 75/25 split is probably about right. I was amazed that anyone living there would want to vote leave, but their thinking was that they might want to return to the UK at some stage in their lives, and felt that an independent UK would be preferable. Typical little Englanders, really.

[John Lambies Doos]

 
I was an expat in southern Spain for a couple of years and would guess that 75/25 split is probably about right. I was amazed that anyone living there would want to vote leave, but their thinking was that they might want to return to the UK at some stage in their lives, and felt that an independent UK would be preferable. Typical little Englanders, really.

They probably wanted to be the most brownish on their return

[Academically Deficient]

57 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I would have assumed that the majority of British people who had made the choice to retire abroad would have voted Remain.

I always made the assumption that most people voted rationally based on their own interests. Recent years have impacted that assumption rather a lot.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

Let them eat frogs.

Reported for animal cruelty.*

Reported for xenophobia and cannibalism.*

 

* delete as required.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Academically Deficient said:

I always made the assumption that most people voted rationally based on their own interests. Recent years have impacted that assumption rather a lot.

Yeah.  Maybe perceived own interests, but even then.

I assume(d) a majority of those who retired to Spain would see the personal benefits of continued open borders.  Maybe not.