Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

If the Northern Ireland soft border backstop is dead then it looks like the only two viable options are a complete U-turn to an EEA style customs union and maintaining the single market complete with freedom of movement or a no deal WTO rules Brexit. Not hopeful that the latter will be avoided as there are way too many careerists in the Tory party who won't follow their Remain convictions if it risks their political future and it's not clear what Corbyn's real agenda is given his tolerance of Kate Hoey and co.

If it's a Hard Brexit the rules will be WTF rather than WTO.

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

It was always continuation in the customs union or a hard border.  It’s been that since the vote...

1

Ultimately true, but there was the possibility of a two year transition period post-March 29th 2019 for long enough that the whole thing might eventually be reversed after the next general election once more people finally got their head around how crazy the whole hard border thing is and grasped that the Empire isn't there any more so Brexit is a one-way ticket back to the 1970s and things like the three day week in economic terms rather than a return to some mythical golden age of global trading that neatly airbrushes out the whole imperial militarism and exploitation angle. The EU's negotiating posture on a withdrawal deal with a lengthy transition being conditional on the NI backstop hasn't worked the way they planned as it now seems likely to speed things along to the RoI-NI hard border it was supposed to help avoid, so the question now is whether either side will blink. Politicians don't like to lose face and the EU collectively are probably not all that bothered about the prospect of tipping the RoI into economic meltdown along with the UK, if it provides the example to scare off others from ever thinking of leaving, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening. 

[zidane's child]

Just when Theresa thought she was in line for a peaceful summer break!

This makes the Tory party conference that little bit more awkward.

[Granny Danger]

Regardless of which side your on, how the f**k have we managed to make so little progress in over two years?  I suppose that’s partly rhetorical but nonetheless it’s a indicator of absolute ineptitude.

 

[Antiochas III]

2 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

All colonialism is wrong, illegal and should be reversed wherever practically possible.  Gibraltar is pure colonialism, in the 21st century.  It's abhorrent, and the UK would and has gone to war over things like that.  It's just wrong, and literally only British people can't see it.

Catalonia is being held against its will, and is a territory controlled directly by another, the textbook definition of a colony.

Like most ancient citites Gibraltar only exists because of colonialism.  The Phonecians founded the settlement there.  

2 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

All colonialism is wrong, illegal and should be reversed wherever practically possible.  Gibraltar is pure colonialism, in the 21st century.  It's abhorrent, and the UK would and has gone to war over things like that.  It's just wrong, and literally only British people can't see it.

Catalonia is being held against its will, and is a territory controlled directly by another, the textbook definition of a colony.

Gibraltar has belonged to the UK longer than Spain held it when they stole it off Grenada.  Who's Moorish settlers held it longer than both, who stole it off the Visigoths, who took it from the Vandals who stole it from the Romans etc. etc.  

It would be abhorrent to give Spain control over the territory without the consent of those living there.  

Where do we stop - Scotland giving back the islands?    

[Cerberus]

From Brexit I hope philyerboots and the other Brexit arseholes lose their jobs with the economic downturn and are faced with picking fruit or losing their houses.

 

[Granny Danger]

23 minutes ago, Antiochas III said:

Like most ancient citites Gibraltar only exists because of colonialism.  The Phonecians founded the settlement there.  

Gibraltar has belonged to the UK longer than Spain held it when they stole it off Grenada.  Who's Moorish settlers held it longer than both, who stole it off the Visigoths, who took it from the Vandals who stole it from the Romans etc. etc.  

It would be abhorrent to give Spain control over the territory without the consent of those living there.  

Where do we stop - Scotland giving back the islands?    

I can understand that argument but please don’t dismiss the colonial element.

I think Spain is quite gracious in its approach to Gibraltar, and if we have a hard Brexit and they wanted to get ‘nasty’ Spain could make life for those living on the island very difficult.

 

[welshbairn]

18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Regardless of which side your on, how the f**k have we managed to make so little progress in over two years?  I suppose that’s partly rhetorical but nonetheless it’s a indicator of absolute ineptitude.

 

They've been trying or pretending to fit square pegs in round holes. It was always about sorting out internal Tory battles, nobody thought the electorate were daft enough to vote leave. To be outside the EU and keep being part of a frictionless market you need freedom of movement and acceptance of rules you no longer play a part in shaping. You also need to pay your share to keep it all functioning. Neither the Tories or Labour are prepared to accept any of that, so it's a revote or WTO imo.

[Fullerene]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I can understand that argument but please don’t dismiss the colonial element.

I think Spain is quite gracious in its approach to Gibraltar, and if we have a hard Brexit and they wanted to get ‘nasty’ Spain could make life for those living on the island very difficult.

What island?  Gibraltar is a peninsula (which probably annoys Spain more than if it had been an island).

At the same time,  Spain isn't rushing to give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco.

 

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

What island?  Gibraltar is a peninsula (which probably annoys Spain more than if it had been an island).

At the same time,  Spain isn't rushing to give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco.

 

Sorry, peninsula; and yes there are hypocrisies.  Who’d have guessed.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

A trade deal with the USA means taking their shite food, getting rid of country of origin labelling and opening up publicly owned services to competition.
I do not see the EU going for that with Trump. TTIP died for a reason.

Why does US chocolate smell and taste like puke?

[Peppino Impastato]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Really? It's a bit rich for Spain to complain about Gibraltar's status revolving around what the people who live there want when they still control Ceuta and Melilla on the coast of Morocco on a similar sort of basis.

If the Northern Ireland soft border backstop is dead then it looks like the only two viable options are a complete U-turn to an EEA style customs union and maintaining the single market complete with freedom of movement or a no deal WTO rules Brexit. Not hopeful that the latter will be avoided as there are way too many careerists in the Tory party who won't follow their Remain convictions if it risks their political future and it's not clear what Corbyn's real agenda is given his tolerance of Kate Hoey and co.

Pure whataboutery and completely irrelevant.

[Peppino Impastato]

58 minutes ago, Antiochas III said:

Like most ancient citites Gibraltar only exists because of colonialism.  The Phonecians founded the settlement there.  

Gibraltar has belonged to the UK longer than Spain held it when they stole it off Grenada.  Who's Moorish settlers held it longer than both, who stole it off the Visigoths, who took it from the Vandals who stole it from the Romans etc. etc.  

It would be abhorrent to give Spain control over the territory without the consent of those living there.  

Where do we stop - Scotland giving back the islands?    

You mean the islands adjacent to Scotland?   Remind me where Gibraltar is champ.  It's hilarious to watch British people become all prissy when their colonialism is questioned.  Hypocrisy writ large.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Pure whataboutery and completely irrelevant.

Its actually one of the best short assessments of the likely brexit outcome ive seen posted on this thread. I dont see what you disagree with?

[Peppino Impastato]

51 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Its actually one of the best short assessments of the likely brexit outcome ive seen posted on this thread. I dont see what you disagree with?

I just meant the first paragraph.  The second one is pretty good.

[JamieThomas]

There's yer Kate "Dr Zaius" Hoey been given a unanimous vote of no confidence by her CLP.

Cheerio.

[NorthernLights]

Bloody Burnley ...

 

[Antiochas III]

7 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

You mean the islands adjacent to Scotland?   Remind me where Gibraltar is champ.  It's hilarious to watch British people become all prissy when their colonialism is questioned.  Hypocrisy writ large.

Ah so if it is adjacent it't ok (like say Scotland and England or Britain to Northern Ireland).    Where in the definition of colony does it say that. 

It is only adjacent to Spain because the Castilians and Aragonians stole it off the Moors.   

Edited July 27, 2018 by Antiochas III

[Fullerene]

9 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Regardless of which side your on, how the f**k have we managed to make so little progress in over two years?  I suppose that’s partly rhetorical but nonetheless it’s a indicator of absolute ineptitude.

Oh never mind.  By comparison, once we leave the EU, our trade deals with other countries will be really really quick - or so I have been told.

[Fullerene]

17 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

They have a whole fucking aisle for coleslaw? Gibraltar deserves everything it gets. 

Franco banned the sale of coleslaw.  It is a political statement.