Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Detournement]

The EU clearly still has ambitions of keeping the UK in the Single Market and are using the border as leverage.

 

[Granny Danger]

16 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

The Government and the EU could be seen to be ‘getting on with it’ (the rest of the Brexit ‘deal’) if they were able/allowed to sensibly park the Northern Irish/ROI border question for an agreed period.

 

Sorry but that shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

The EU are saying that there can be no time limit to the backstop because otherwise there is no guarantee that there will be no hard border at some future time.

Many Tories are saying there must be a time limit to the backstop written in to the agreement because otherwise it could be indefinite.

The issue cannot therefore be ‘parked’ because it can only be either one option or the other.

 

 

[Jacksgranda]

11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Sorry but that shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

The EU are saying that there can be no time limit to the backstop because otherwise there is no guarantee that there will be no hard border at some future time.

Many Tories are saying there must be a time limit to the backstop written in to the agreement because otherwise it could be indefinite.

The issue cannot therefore be ‘parked’ because it can only be either one option or the other.

 

 

Issues can always be "parked", it goes on day in and day out.

 

[RedRob72]

Sorry but that shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue.
The EU are saying that there can be no time limit to the backstop because otherwise there is no guarantee that there will be no hard border at some future time.
Many Tories are saying there must be a time limit to the backstop written in to the agreement because otherwise it could be indefinite.
The issue cannot therefore be ‘parked’ because it can only be either one option or the other.
 
 

My apologies, ‘parking’ would have to include a forward agreement on how long the additional transition period would be. ‘Double Parking’ If you like. Otherwise it seems unlikely that the stalemate you describe above will be resolved before March 2019. I’m suggesting the WHOLE NI/ROI border issue should be held or ring-fenced, (with arrangements left to run as they do currently), to allow the rest of the process to develop.

[Granny Danger]

13 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Issues can always be "parked", it goes on day in and day out.

 

That is trite and shows a total lack of understanding.  The only way it can be ‘parked’ is if there is an agreed understanding as to the length of the ‘parking’.

The EU are saying it cannot be time limited, the U.K. government are unlikely to accept this.

It is a binary option.

 

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

My apologies, ‘parking’ would have to include a forward agreement on how long the additional transition period would be. ‘Double Parking’ If you like. Otherwise it seems unlikely that the stalemate you describe above will be resolved before March 2019. I’m suggesting the WHOLE NI/ROI border issue should be held or ring-fenced, (with arrangements left to run as they do currently), to allow the rest of the process to develop.

The DUP will never allow NI to be treated any differently from the rest of the UK. You'll have to vote them out.

[Miguel Sanchez]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

The EU clearly still has ambitions of keeping the UK in the Single Market and are using the border as leverage.

 

They Need Us More Than We Need Them - OUT NOW!!!

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

They Need Us More Than We Need Them - OUT NOW!!!

I didn't say that.

They don't want anyone to leave regardless of the balance of power.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

13 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The DUP will never allow NI to be treated any differently from the rest of the UK. You'll have to vote them out.

Or they will do what exactly ?  Given that NI voted Remain, I would hazard that a great many people in Ulster would prefer a solution that enables everyday life to go on as smoothly as possible in preference to a detrimental situation which satisfies only the ritualistic decades-long bombast of the DUP.  Does the average person naval-gaze like Foster, Wilson and Wells ?

The NI Unionists are increasingly resembling the Boers of yesteryear; they must realise that the demographic ground is shifting  rapidly under them and that change is a-coming, yet rather than face up to the situation and address it in a consensual spirit they remain wedded to the failing rhetoric of yesteryear.

It's time their bluff was called, and big-time.

[Detournement]

10 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Or they will do what exactly ?  Given that NI voted Remain, I would hazard that a great many people in Ulster would prefer a solution that enables everyday life to go on as smoothly as possible in preference to a detrimental situation which satisfies only the ritualistic decades-long bombast of the DUP.  Does the average person naval-gaze like Foster, Wilson and Wells ?

 

I agree with that. However surely the economic, security and social challenges of unification would have a greater effect on every day life than border regulations?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I agree with that. However surely the economic, security and social challenges of unification would have a greater effect on every day life than border regulations?

I never mentioned unification; the notional semi-detachment of Ulster from the UK is a symbolic nightmare only for Unionists of a boneheaded mentality. Tradition, heritage, etc., matters less to most people than practicality.

[Granny Danger]

20 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Or they will do what exactly ?  Given that NI voted Remain, I would hazard that a great many people in Ulster would prefer a solution that enables everyday life to go on as smoothly as possible in preference to a detrimental situation which satisfies only the ritualistic decades-long bombast of the DUP.  Does the average person naval-gaze like Foster, Wilson and Wells ?

The NI Unionists are increasingly resembling the Boers of yesteryear; they must realise that the demographic ground is shifting  rapidly under them and that change is a-coming, yet rather than face up to the situation and address it in a consensual spirit they remain wedded to the failing rhetoric of yesteryear.

It's time their bluff was called, and big-time.

I agree with a lot of that.  If May hadn’t fucked herself by calling a GE that lost her a majority and made her so dependent upon the DUP that might have happened already.

 

[Detournement]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

12 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I agree with that. However surely the economic, security and social challenges of unification would have a greater effect on every day life than border regulations?

I never mentioned unification; the notional semi-detachment of Ulster from the UK is a symbolic nightmare only for Unionists of a boneheaded mentality. Tradition, heritage, etc., matters less to most people than practicality.

People in NI might want to try electing some representatives who (i) aren't boneheads (ii) actually turn up to work.

[doulikefish]

https://twitter.com/peterbrownbarra/status/1055061367894499328

[Jacksgranda]

12 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

18 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I agree with that. However surely the economic, security and social challenges of unification would have a greater effect on every day life than border regulations?

I never mentioned unification; the notional semi-detachment of Ulster from the UK is a symbolic nightmare only for Unionists of a boneheaded mentality. Tradition, heritage, etc., matters less to most people than practicality.

A semi-detached NI might be less likely to vote for a united Ireland than a hard bordered one, IMO.

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

The EU clearly still has ambitions of keeping the UK in the Single Market and are using the border as leverage.

 

 

Remaining in the single market and customs union would make perfect sense to me.

[wastecoatwilly]

No deal brexit means the Clyde will be full of boats with tobacco and sugar for sale,£2 for Seville oranges and £3 for a strait banana. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by wastecoatwilly

[RedRob72]

I never mentioned unification; the notional semi-detachment of Ulster from the UK is a symbolic nightmare only for Unionists of a boneheaded mentality. Tradition, heritage, etc., matters less to most people than practicality.

The traditions and heritage of others, summarily dismissed as boneheaded symbolism won’t help much either.

[HTG]

The Irish border has been the elephant in the room since June 2016. It's been unsolvable for almost 2 and a half years of constant negotiations. It remains an unsolvable problem because unless the UK is in the customs union,there needs to be a border somewhere. It's like saying that we'll just leave the situation at the channel ports exactly as it is. And that's not going to happen because we're not going to adopt EU rules - particularly on freedom of movement. 

You can either be in the customs union with all its conditions or you can have a border. You can't have neither. If there needs to be a special deal for the island of Ireland then the border is the mainland. This will cause a riot so it's not going to happen. 

Either the GFA is fucked or EU exit is fucked. Should have thought about it before offering a referendum.

Extended transition is only kicking the choice down the road. The EU are not going to move their red lines on freedom of movement. 

[BawWatchin]

19 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

The traditions and heritage of others, summarily dismissed as boneheaded symbolism won’t help much either.

It doesn't really matter. The symbolism over practically types are quickly dying out.