Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

2 minutes ago, beefybake said:

Politically, in Parliament, he's doing all the right things, at the right time. 

The government has to implode before he can do anything.  You can only do something when you have the power. 

It's quite a leap to assume Middle England will elect Corbyn if or when the government implodes. Brown, or even Milliband had a sporting chance.  Corbyn?   Voted in by Daily Mail readers? When even they admit the Tories are incompetent?  I think that's going too far. His popularity with  the electorate is waning.  Brexit was always going to be a challenge for him personally, and he just hasn't stepped up. 

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, beefybake said:

Politically, in Parliament, he's doing all the right things, at the right time. 

The government has to implode before he can do anything.  You can only do something when you have the power. 

Two months ago, maybe even six weeks ago, I would have agreed.  However if he came out now in favour of a second referendum it could well carry the day in Parliament.  If successful it would also see the Conservative Party implode.

He is not in power and cannot force a GE in the conventional way.  A second referendum with a Remain result could well result in a GE however.

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

6 minutes ago, beefybake said:

Politically, in Parliament, he's doing all the right things, at the right time. 

The government has to implode before he can do anything.  You can only do something when you have the power. 

I'm not so sure about that.

The worst government in UK history is still polling above Corbyn's Labour.

In years to come, once Corbyn's long gone, Labour supporters will look back and shake their heads in amazement that they let such a glorious opportunity pass by, and they'll wonder furiously how such a hopeless, incompetent, indecisive ideologue became leader of the party.

[Brother Blades]

 
You missed out Burnley.

Do you live in Burnley?

[Brother Blades]

I’m increasingly thinking Mays botch job will get through.
What are the realistic alternatives?
Not enough Tories are willing to fall on their sword to invoke a GE, especially given the poll on Conservative Party Members, the ones that go against the government for a remain policy would most likely be de-selected surely?
Can someone please surmise all the possibilities for me?

[John Lambies Doos]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/04/most-tory-members-would-choose-no-deal-over-may-brexit-plan
Assuming the poll has been run by a credible organisation and the results are correct, it simply shows that the members of the various Conservative associations are extremists who are out of touch with their own voters.
It also shows that the ERG are more representative of these members than the majority of Tory MPs.
 

That's quite an astounding poll tbh, even for Torys. Basically if May does not get her vote through on 14th then she will have no option but to resign. Meaning any leadership contest will be won by a hard brexiteer based on grassroots support.

[zidane's child]

56 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

He's old school Socialist. He likes to think he has principles, which to be fair he has when compared to the Blairite Labour MP's who had a meltdown and tried to get rid of him when the party elected him leader. But a dinosaur with principles is still a dinosaur. He's coming across as hopelessly inept. I quite like him, comes across as quite a decent guy. He seems completely out of his depth at this level though. 

I like him too but agree with you. For me, he still adopts a backbench mentality

[zidane's child]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

6 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/04/most-tory-members-would-choose-no-deal-over-may-brexit-plan
Assuming the poll has been run by a credible organisation and the results are correct, it simply shows that the members of the various Conservative associations are extremists who are out of touch with their own voters.
It also shows that the ERG are more representative of these members than the majority of Tory MPs.
 

That's quite an astounding poll tbh, even for Torys. Basically if May does not get her vote through on 14th then she will have no option but to resign. Meaning any leadership contest will be won by a hard brexiteer based on grassroots support.

Tory grassroots? All 14 of them?

[John Lambies Doos]

Tory grassroots? All 14 of them?

Quite a significant sample size in that poll.

[ICTJohnboy]

29 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

Do you live in Burnley?

 

Yes, and I can confirm it is a shithole.

[Fullerene]

52 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I'm not so sure about that.

The worst government in UK history is still polling above Corbyn's Labour.

In years to come, once Corbyn's long gone, Labour supporters will look back and shake their heads in amazement that they let such a glorious opportunity pass by, and they'll wonder furiously how such a hopeless, incompetent, indecisive ideologue became leader of the party.

The Labour membership chose Corbyn to be Labour leader because he shares their aspirations ...

.. except when he doesn't. 

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

 

Anyway, the DUP confirming that they won’t support May’s deal.  Hardly a surprise.

 

Yep, even if  it was to mean a return to a hard border with the Republic.

The only thing that matters to these morons is continuing to be seen as a part of the union and  forever to be regarded as British. They will never surrender.

 

[Fullerene]

17 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Yep, even if  it was to mean a return to a hard border with the Republic.

The only thing that matters to these morons is continuing to be seen as a part of the union and  forever to be regarded as British. They will never surrender.

As far as they are concerned, if there is a return to a hard border then that is because the EU are being pig-headed, inflexible, stubborn and bloody-minded.
Imagine being accused of that by the DUP.

[NotThePars]

It's quite a leap to assume Middle England will elect Corbyn if or when the government implodes. Brown, or even Milliband had a sporting chance.  Corbyn?   Voted in by Daily Mail readers? When even they admit the Tories are incompetent?  I think that's going too far. His popularity with  the electorate is waning.  Brexit was always going to be a challenge for him personally, and he just hasn't stepped up. 

This is from Richard Seymour’s Corbyn book:

“Bellwether constituencies like Enfield, Southgate, Warwick and Leamington, Reading East, Ipswich and Peterborough, went Labour. Supposed London marginals such as Ealing Central, Tooting and Hampstead and Kilburn became safe seats. Canterbury, having been Conservative since the Great War, was won by Labour. Kensington, including the richest residents in the country, was swallowed in a vengeful blood-red wave across London as it’s forgotten working-class constituents took revenge on an atrocious Tory MP. Portsmouth, a Tory-Liberal marginal, went Labour, as the party showed surprising strength across the South and South West. Labour had its biggest surge in vote share since 1945, with Corbyn racking up just short of 13 million votes, after coming from twenty points behind.”

There’s a site somewhere that shows the required swings for Labour and there is dozens upon dozens of marginals that are easily up for grabs. I don’t think anybody would argue that it’s a given but to pretend that Labour don’t have as good a chance as they’ve had in years of securing a hung parliament that falls in their favour, or even an outright majority, is not out of the question and is certainly more plausible now than it was under Brown who was devoid of ideas or Miliband who by his own acknowledgment was far too timid.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

31 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

This is from Richard Seymour’s Corbyn book:

“Bellwether constituencies like Enfield, Southgate, Warwick and Leamington, Reading East, Ipswich and Peterborough, went Labour. Supposed London marginals such as Ealing Central, Tooting and Hampstead and Kilburn became safe seats. Canterbury, having been Conservative since the Great War, was won by Labour. Kensington, including the richest residents in the country, was swallowed in a vengeful blood-red wave across London as it’s forgotten working-class constituents took revenge on an atrocious Tory MP. Portsmouth, a Tory-Liberal marginal, went Labour, as the party showed surprising strength across the South and South West. Labour had its biggest surge in vote share since 1945, with Corbyn racking up just short of 13 million votes, after coming from twenty points behind.”

There’s a site somewhere that shows the required swings for Labour and there is dozens upon dozens of marginals that are easily up for grabs. I don’t think anybody would argue that it’s a given but to pretend that Labour don’t have as good a chance as they’ve had in years of securing a hung parliament that falls in their favour, or even an outright majority, is not out of the question and is certainly more plausible now than it was under Brown who was devoid of ideas or Miliband who by his own acknowledgment was far too timid.

 

The current shambles created by the Tories  should be an absolute gift to Labour, so yes, not out of the question at all.

But with Corbyn as party leader?  I thought he fought a good campaign last time and Labour did better than was expected of them.  Admittedly May was a pretty lame opponent, but he still gained significant popular support. But his popularity has been on the slide since then, mainly due to his  indecision or wrong decisions. He just doesn't seem to show leadership. 

It's a possibility that a general election might not be too far away. What are the chances of Labour getting their act together in time to present some credible alternatives to these marginal voters?   Because I just can't see Middle England being comfortable with him in charge, backed up by McDonnell  and Abbot.

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by oldbitterandgrumpy

[Detournement]

On 1/2/2019 at 14:25, NotThePars said:

Apparently the weighting and results.

This is the poll that has everyone the Meltdom up in arms.

For the hard of reading it shows that 47% of Labour supporters agree with the party's Brexit policy. 29% are opposed. Only 9% are strongly opposed compare to 17% strongly support.

The poll clearly does not show the membership in uproar about Corbyn's Brexit policy.

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Detournement

[Granny Danger]

Seaborne Freight’s chief executive previously owned a shipping company that went bust owing £1.78m including an undisclosed sum to HMRC.

Just the sort of guy you want the government to be handing contracts to.

 

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, Detournement said:

This is the poll that has everyone the Meltdom up in arms.

For the hard of reading it shows that 47% of Labour supporters agree with the party's Brexit policy. 29% are opposed. Only 9% are strongly opposed compare to 17% strongly support.

The poll clearly does not show the membership in uproar about Corbyn's Brexit policy.

 

They agree with Labour's policy which is different from Corbyn's.

[doulikefish]

Seaborne Freight’s chief executive previously owned a shipping company that went bust owing £1.78m including an undisclosed sum to HMRC.
Just the sort of guy you want the government to be handing contracts to.
 

On the bright side Ramsgate harbour is getting dredged......by a Dredger from Holland [emoji23]

[Granny Danger]

Just now, doulikefish said:

On the bright side Ramsgate harbour is getting dredged......by a Dredger from Holland

Fucking Dutch.  Coming over here dredging our harbours.