Antiochas III Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: 2. I've always said I'm ok with giving the Dreamers some type of legal status in exchange for the wall and an end to low skilled immigration from 3rd world countries. No citizenship so that they can't vote and can still be deported if they commit crimes. And of course these non-citizens should be exempt from tax too, yes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Antiochas III said: And of course these non-citizens should be exempt from tax too, yes? Well, the US govt. would certainly come out ahead in a deal where Dreamers did not pay tax and they received nothing from the government. But that's not going to happen and would f**k over their American born kids. So yes, they should pay taxes when relevant. If they don't happen to like the laws of America they have another country where they can go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 It's important to remember that in a constitutional system where lawmaking and law enforcement are divided you have to make sure the side charged with enforcing the laws does their job. Our Founders put it in the Constitution that the President is required to enforce the law because of the examples in Europe where the kings would just ignore laws passed by the various national assemblies and parliaments. The Congress has never delegated authority to legalize immigrants who have no right by law to live in the United States. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Well, the US govt. would certainly come out ahead in a deal where Dreamers did not pay tax and they received nothing from the government. But that's not going to happen and would f**k over their American born kids. So yes, they should pay taxes when relevant. If they don't happen to like the laws of America they have another country where they can go. So they pay taxes but can't vote. What happened to "no taxation without representation"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 So they pay taxes but can't vote. What happened to "no taxation without representation"? As opposed to rich white republicans who can vote but not pay taxes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 So if your DACA permit expires next month then you will not be able to renew it and be in the country illegally? Harsh. Personally speaking, getting sent back to the UK would be utterly abhorrent. I don't even want to think about going to Mexico or China. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 46 minutes ago, Antiochas III said: And of course these non-citizens should be exempt from tax too, yes? 19 minutes ago, Forest_Fifer said: So they pay taxes but can't vote. What happened to "no taxation without representation"? Surely this would be the same as Americans, Mexicans, Canadians etc. that are in the UK working, they are still liable to taxation regardless of UK Citizenship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 36 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: It's important to remember that in a constitutional system where lawmaking and law enforcement are divided you have to make sure the side charged with enforcing the laws does their job. Our Founders put it in the Constitution that the President is required to enforce the law because of the examples in Europe where the kings would just ignore laws passed by the various national assemblies and parliaments. The Congress has never delegated authority to legalize immigrants who have no right by law to live in the United States. Like pardoning the Sheriff whose case hadn't even finished due process? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Did I just see a serious statement saying that rich white people don't pay taxes? 22 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Like pardoning the Sheriff whose case hadn't even finished due process? People can argue about whether the President should pardon people who haven't exhausted their fight through the legal system, but I've never heard anyone say the law requires the President to wait. Famously President Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, which would be comparable to this situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 minute ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Well, the US govt. would certainly come out ahead in a deal where Dreamers did not pay tax and they received nothing from the government. But that's not going to happen and would f**k over their American born kids. So yes, they should pay taxes when relevant. If they don't happen to like the laws of America they have another country where they can go. . 8 hours ago, strichener said: Surely this would be the same as Americans, Mexicans, Canadians etc. that are in the UK working, they are still liable to taxation regardless of UK Citizenship. We didn't fight a war on the premise of "No taxation without representation". But for record anyone who works and taxed in this country should have the right to vote on who gets to decide how those taxes are spent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Antiochas III said: . We didn't fight a war on the premise of "No taxation without representation". But for record anyone who works and taxed in this country should have the right to vote on who gets to decide how those taxes are spent. I completely disagree, if someone is here on a years secondment for work and that happens to fall into the same period as an election then they absolutely should not have the right to vote. The electoral franchise is quite rightly not moulded around work and taxation with good reason. If a foreign national wishes to make the UK their home then they are quite welcome to apply for citizenship to demonstrate this. Edited September 6, 2017 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Gaelic Speaking Ghetto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I completely disagree, if someone is here on a years secondment for work and that happens to fall into the same period as an election then they absolutely should not have the right to vote. The electoral franchise is quite rightly not moulded around work and taxation with good reason. If a foreign national wishes to make the UK their home then they are quite welcome to apply for citizenship to demonstrate this. Dare I say the 2014 referendum? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 39 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: Dare I say the 2014 referendum? You may but I don't see the relevance. There was still a citizenship requirement for voting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 You may but I don't see the relevance. There was still a citizenship requirement for voting. There most certainly was not. Anyone over 18 living there over a year could vote. My cousin from Tipperary got a vote. She is not a British citizen; there's your relevance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: There most certainly was not. Anyone over 18 living there over a year could vote. My cousin from Tipperary got a vote. She is not a British citizen; there's your relevance You are not correct. The requirements were quite clearly set out in the Scottish Independence Referendum (Franchise) Act 2013. To save you the bother, here is the relevant extract: Edited September 6, 2017 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 You are not correct. The requirements were quite clearly set out in the Scottish Independence Referendum (Franchise) Act 2013. To save you the bother, here is the relevant extract: Not surprised that you pick and choose. You know what my point was and you know you were wrong.No need to be a citizen to vote; as indicated by you on my challenge.Takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 33 minutes ago, kilbowie2002 said: Yes ok he was 2 years out with the minimum voting age, however his point is entirely relevant, its one rule for what suits the establishment and one rule for everything else. I wasn't referring to the age. He expressly stated that there wasn't citizenship requirements for voting and was incorrect. 15 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: Not surprised that you pick and choose. You know what my point was and you know you were wrong. No need to be a citizen to vote; as indicated by you on my challenge.Takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. Don't start this picking and choosing shite. You picked a vote where you thought it was based on residency and you were patently wrong. You should perhaps consider the bolded part of your post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossbill Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I think he is right based on (d), is he not? One of my friends who has lived in Scotland all his life but was born in the US did not get to vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Crossbill said: I think he is right based on (d), is he not? One of my friends who has lived in Scotland all his life but was born in the US did not get to vote. Was he not registered to vote? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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