Savage Henry Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 The 80s were the worst time for iraqis under saddam you say, round about the same time the wrst supported him. The 2nd gulf war has ruined Iraq and anyone arguing otherwise is in fantasy land. The Kurds would take issue with being called Iraqi. You are also prioritising a construct a hundred year old construct over several quite older ethnic groupings, and ignoring Hussein’s own brand of hegemonic nationalism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlMarx Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Savage Henry said: The Kurds would take issue with being called Iraqi. The west supported Saddam until he stopped playing ball with them. The war was about oil, oil and oil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 The west supported Saddam until he stopped playing ball with them. The war was about oil, oil and oil. I’m out. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlMarx Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Savage Henry said: I’m out. Cheers. Good for you. You're entitled to your beliefs. The people murdered by Uncle Sam no longer have that choice. Cheers mate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Trump throwing paper towels at people in Puerto Rico is so wrong it's funny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, KarlMarx said: Good for you. You're entitled to your beliefs. The people murdered by Uncle Sam no longer have that choice. Cheers mate. That's the same reductive argument used against Leninists and Stalinists lol. Not that I think either of you are exactly correct here but still. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Trump throwing paper towels at people in Puerto Rico is so wrong it's funny. Has this actually happened? [emoji38] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 The Kurds would take issue with being called Iraqi. You are also prioritising a construct a hundred year old construct over several quite older ethnic groupings, and ignoring Hussein’s own brand of hegemonic nationalism. Im not ignoring anything. A tribal country lile Iraq needs someone like Suddam. It cant even be considered a functioning state now....just like Libya. Anyway this all stems from you suggesting that Iraq is better off now than it was 20 years ago which is total bullshit imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Has this actually happened? [emoji38] 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Men in white coats time. Poor press officer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, mjw said: Is that his try out for the New Jersey Generals? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Again, my post was never claiming that everyone in Iraq was benefiting. Precisely the opposite. My issue was the idea that the USA has made Iraq worse full stop. It’s one of the key failings of the handover, and a major, major problem in civil society (or lack thereof) is a sectarian bias. That said, all of the programmes are open to both Sunni and Shi’a; a division which is very marked in certain parts of the country and almost unnoticeable in others. It goes hand in hand with economic imbalances as well as religious differences. Very few Christians? In Baghdad, certainly. Not elsewhere. Tariq Aziz was a monied Christian with party political connections. Christian Arabs were generally forced to move North as Saddam became increasingly unhinged. Iraq’s cities are, to a greater or lesser extent, ghettoised. But that’s not an affect of Western intervention. In recent years, Christians have been able (rightly or wrongly) to present themselves as a persecuted minority in a way closed off to Muslims. I have issues with that in some ways, but it’s besides the point. It certain explains migration rates though. ETA: I believe, although I may be wrong, that it’s generally been established that there were as many as 30 separate uses of targeted chemical attacks on Kurdish villages over a period of years in the mid to late 80s. The US Department of State has overseen a cataloguing of those attacks, i will try and find them in the morning. Halabja was merely the nadir, for want of a better word. I’d say, relatively speaking, that counts as routine usage. This is no place for nuanced and balanced points.America is not the goodies. They are baddies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProgressiveLiberal Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Trump is such a boss. Imagine how fresh it would be to catch a roll of paper towels he threw into a crowd. I'd be stoked. Video has emerged of the San Juan Mayor, our supposed fellow citizen, taking her oath of office. 6 hours ago, Zen Archer said: Is that his try out for the New Jersey Generals? Think you're getting your sports confused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlMarx Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Trump is such a boss. Imagine how fresh it would be to catch a roll of paper towels he threw into a crowd. I'd be stoked. Video has emerged of the San Juan Mayor, our supposed fellow citizen, taking her oath of office. Think you're getting your sports confused. You are without doubt a fucking clown just like Trump. Done your research on America's disgusting history yet Swampy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 12 hours ago, welshbairn said: I've got a few issues with this, not least what the wonders of "Fulbright Scholarship, Access English, Iraqi Young Leaders Programme, and other academic and humanitarian projects funded by the US Department of State,... the access to uncensored media, movies and music... the bars, clubs and international tourism in Iraq, too, much of which is supported or funded by the good ol' US of A." have done for the Sunni population. And as evil as Saddam was he did not " routinely fire chemical weapons at dissidents" , that would be absurd, where would he aim them? He used them in the Iran war on the battlefield, and once against Kurdish civilians at Halabja, as you mentioned. Christians had very little trouble until after the American and British invasion, now there are very few left. Saddam's Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz was a Christian, for instance. Must have been a fan of the Old Testament, imho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 hours ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said: Think you're getting your sports confused. No, do some research. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 A lot of weird shit goes on there tbf. Definitely the more interesting of the books. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 11 hours ago, mjw said: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 You are without doubt a fucking clown just like Trump. Done your research on America's disgusting history yet Swampy? Swampy lives in Texas, all the history he needs to know is about the Alamo... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Swampy lives in Texas, all the history he needs to know is about the Alamo... Which recent research has shown Ozzy Osbourne didn't actually piss on after all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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