NotThePars Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Yeah this misty eyed pish for a time before post-truth politics is just that. Misty eyed pish. The first instance I can recall reading about post-truth politics was from Jim Murphy of all people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Yeah this misty eyed pish for a time before post-truth politics is just that. Misty eyed pish. The first instance I can recall reading about post-truth politics was from Jim Murphy of all people. Trump and Brexit took to a whole new blatant level though. I remember Boris talking about lessons to be learnt from Trump's campaign even while he was slagging him off as a no hoper. Using "many people say" to justify repeating some nonsense accusation you read on a nutjob website started with when Trump joined the birthers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Disagree, don't think trump came close to better together in in terms of lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Peppino Impastato said: Disagree, don't think trump came close to better together in in terms of lies. Not sure I could really agree with that. Better Together were a wide collection but Trump's debate lies literally averaged around one per minute of speaking time. Better Together were often intentionally misleading and a bit rash with how they presented the truth but Trump's stuff literally come from thin air and far right mental websites with completely imaginary facts. The stuff he was coming out with about ISIS and foreign policy was actually quite funny with how removed from reality it was. Better Together's worst mainstream deceptions, at the time, were generally mentioning our higher spending requirements without taking into account the tax base (which you could argue they had a point with in the narrative that the yes campaign was arguing with and the subsequent increase in the theoretical deficit after the oil price collapse), using GDP without a per capita share to show Scotland becoming poorer, the EU position (which was initially butchered by the SNP) and the banking crisis. Despite being bullshit, all of them had some sort of twisted reality in some way so you could at least see the origins. Trump's stuff just comes out of thin air and is so extreme that people can't even have a logical debate about it which just re-enforces the views by his supporters. If you can't agree on a couple of fundamental facts using basic human logic, there's no position to debate. Better Together were not successful due to their lies either, Yes Scotland just couldn't provide a cohesive economical argument at the time and people took what they perceived as the safe option. I was a yes supporter at the time (and would very likely be now) but the positive economic arguments and future was often actually produced by people on forums like this and third party experts rather than the leading politicians who were unable to give any specific details apart from calling very basic questions as scaremongering and negative campaigning (the concerns over the currency were perfectly legitimate but never countered). Better Together exploited that and run away with it but it was an open goal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 One of the more dangerous of Trump's lies has been regurgitating the wholly debunked and fraudulent myth that childhood inoculations cause Autism. He has no concept of the truth or concern about the effects of what he spouts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 6 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: 'Hail Trump!': White Nationalists Salute the President Elect http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/ That fat b*****d at 2:46 looks like he's just escaped from prison. Scary stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehawhehaw Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said: Disagree, don't think trump came close to better together in in terms of lies. Yes but got nowhere near the fat slob salmond. A noted liar, ask Andrew Neil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Yeah tory donor and raging britnat Andrew Neil let's ask him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, hehawhehaw said: Yes but got nowhere near the fat slob salmond. A noted liar, ask Andrew Neil. What did Alex Salmond lie about? This should be good.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: Yeah this misty eyed pish for a time before post-truth politics is just that. Misty eyed pish. The first instance I can recall reading about post-truth politics was from Jim Murphy of all people. I think people forget Tony Blair was an "extreme" change at the time, a departure from the political leaders that had led Western Europe for most of the 20th century, and certainly very different to the UK. I'm far too young to know how he campaigned but I'm willing to bet a lot of it was anti-establishment, a big change, a new world, etc. It's a cycle, pure and simple. The "left" (yes, Tony Blair was left at the time) have had a go, and as human beings do they had three or four years of relatively honest work (minimum wage, human rights, freedom of information, etc) before being corrupted, and turning into the establishment drones they so despised - result, the Labour Party is in disarray, the MPs are power-hungry and would have put another Blairite drone up for leadership were it not for pesky democracy and party members (Democrats in the US would've been the same, but they managed to rig their process for the drone). Far more important to have power than work for the fucking voters, right? So the 'right' are the people's representatives. For now. They'll f**k it up too (probably faster than normal in Trump's case) and the right will be the ones in disarray. Maybe they'll spend weeks hysterically whining, rioting and comparing everyone to Nazis too. Hopefully they'll be a little more grown up. 32 minutes ago, welshbairn said: He has no concept of the truth or concern about the effects of what he spouts. I think that's the whole issue with him. He has absolutely no idea the effect his words now have, or if he does shows no real concept of caring. That's pretty dangerous. Personally I like that he's not a politician, that aspect would've appealed to me were I an American voter, but sooner or later he has to act like a politician - even just a little bit. Seems like he told May she should come and see him "if you're in America", the way you'd say to your pal to give you a shout if he's in town on Saturday night, and recommending ambassadors is just lunacy. I'm all for a new world of politics but that's basic manners on a human level, let alone between countries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Paco said: The "left" (yes, Tony Blair was left at the time) have had a go, No he wasn't. Talking left doesn't make you left. His motives were wicked right from the start, hidden behind smiles and handshakes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Blair campaigned by not being the tories and anti sleaze. Not anti establishment in the slightest, any leader labour put forward would have won in 97 without doing any campaigning at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehawhehaw Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 37 minutes ago, Poo said: What did Alex Salmond lie about? This should be good.... 4th March 2012.When Neil asked him about the EU legal advice, "Labour have cited the exchange as evidence Salmond is a “barefaced liar” after the SNP Government finally admitted they have never taken legal advice on Scotland’s entry to the EU after independence. Referendum chief Nicola Sturgeon revealed they have dropped a bid to block demands for them to reveal the content of the information – admitting it never existed in the first place" How good is that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehawhehaw Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said: Yeah tory donor and raging britnat Andrew Neil let's ask him Are you that person who is so stupid you don't know how stupid you are? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 No. And you're now blocked, you've never made one post worth reading. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I see the promise to jail Hillary has proved to be empty rhetoric. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 He isn't in power yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The cabal of lies continues to unravel and he hasn't even be sworn in yet. The pitchforkers chanting 'lock her up' for the past 18 months must be feeling pretty sore tonight. Completely and utterly misled - as many of us suspected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 17 minutes ago, Consolidate said: The cabal of lies continues to unravel and he hasn't even be sworn in yet. The pitchforkers chanting 'lock her up' for the past 18 months must be feeling pretty sore tonight. Completely and utterly misled - as many of us suspected. I would be very, very surprised if anyone voted for Trump on the basis that he was going to put Clinton in jail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Savage Henry said: I see the promise to jail Hillary has proved to be empty rhetoric. You don't say?!! Just watching C4 Jon Snow at the moment, strangely going on about this. A politician talked shite during an election! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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