Old Firm Colts in L2

[haufdaft]

Celtic's challenge is in Europe,

Celtic are only interested in qualifying and gaining Champion league monies.

They challenge f**k all in Europe and are regularly destroyed in that tournament.

Their youths playing Montrose, Berwick and Cowdenbeath won't change that.

[Loonytoons]

Indeed, it got 76% or whatever despite being leading.

'Do you think B teams should continue to be barred from the league pyramid as in England and Italy?' may well have elicited stronger response, too.

Given both sides of the cheeks and some of the other top flight clubs are for this, I would have expected such highly supported sides to skew the results. Clearly not.

[Bazil85]

16 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I hate seeing folk who grew up in Falkirk or Perth support one of the Old Firm, but if you think they're probably the two worst examples in world football then you need to see a bit more of the world.

I mean in regards to football fans from a certain countries turning their backs on local teams for other clubs man.

I know there are tourist clubs like Man City and Chelsea for example but I don't think there's as big a situation as say fans from Newcastle, Birmingham, Coventry supporting a big London, Liverpool or Manchester club, it will happen but not close to the extent of fans from Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Falkirk, Paisley and everywhere else in Scotland supporting Rangers or Celtic over local clubs.

In Scotland that problem is far worse than in any other country from what I can see. Even in Spain Real and Barcelona will certainly get tourist fans but football fans from other parts of Spain don't generally support the big two in a way that it happens in Scotland. They've actually had protests in Spain about the publicity those clubs get out of fear of turning into the Scottish league. 

Hope I've explained what I meant a bit better there mate. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Bazil85

[DiegoDiego]

34 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

I mean in regards to football fans from a certain countries turning their backs on local teams for other clubs man.

Yeah, I get what you were meaning but I still disagree.  Take Turkey for example, about 70-80% of the population support one of the three biggest Istanbul clubs. Even somewhere like Ankara, which has two top tier teams, you're hard pushed to find someone who doesn't support Fenerbahce, Besiktas or Galatasaray.

[wastecoatwilly]

17 hours ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

This is probably one of your better posts on this thread. I have no problem with you supporting Celtic and if that's your local team great. The other lads on here make great points though. In Dumfries, when I come up for a game, I see so many people on match day cutting about in OF tops or EPL team tops. Its depressing in a way because Queens could really do with that support that we essentially bleed to the likes of those bigger clubs. If the Scottish population adjusted to a support your local team stance then the balance of power and wealth would change and for the better. That's not going to happen though. Many clubs are fighting hard domestically to stay full time, to stay financially solid, to stay competitive in their league which is something you and other old firm fans have not experienced or know. Celtic has a different battle and that's being competitive in Europe for me. 

Look we live in a small country every thing gets polarised,i see kids walking about with Barcelona and real Madrid tops.
I became a Celtic fan because my dad was a Celtic fan,my first experience of football was going to Celtic games.
I don't have all the answers to this problem,Celtic give free tickets to schools in the east end so their first experience of football is going to see Celtic.
If Queens do this in schools in Dumfries then it's a step in the right direction.
If you put 100 fans in a room you will never get them to agree.
 

Edited February 15, 2018 by wastecoatwilly

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

Yeah, I get what you were meaning but I still disagree.  Take Turkey for example, about 70-80% of the population support one of the three biggest Istanbul clubs. Even somewhere like Ankara, which has two top tier teams, you're hard pushed to find someone who doesn't support Fenerbahce, Besiktas or Galatasaray.

That massively different from Scotland? I went to school in paisley for example and I could count on one hand the number of St Mirren fans. Even further afield, my missus lived in Galashiels for three years and I never met a single football fan that wasn't either Rangers or Celtic. 

[1320Lichtie]

I agree with Bazil. A good number of OF fans from every corner of this country. Brutal

[DiegoDiego]

52 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

That massively different from Scotland? I went to school in paisley for example and I could count on one hand the number of St Mirren fans. Even further afield, my missus lived in Galashiels for three years and I never met a single football fan that wasn't either Rangers or Celtic. 

No, it's not massively different, but then it's quite tough to get more saturation than that. I'm quite embarrassed by the situation in Scotland, walking out of Dundee bus station to be met by a Celtic shop is not a situation I'd have let stand if I was on Dundee City Council (well, I'm not sure if their powers reach that far, but you get my point). Scotland is in far from a unique situation though. Even in similar countries the same problem exists. FCK supporters have formed a larger chunk of the Danish population every season since they came into existence. Even in places like Odense or Aarhus you're more likely to see a teenager in an FCK shirt than their local club.

We all know that attendances in Scotland are very high but I also reckon (from the occasional trawl through http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm rather than any statistical comparison) that our attendances hold up very well as you go down through the leagues. Last season Arbroath had higher attendances in tier four than some top tier Greek, Belarussian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and Romanian clubs, probably a few others if I bothered checking them all. The attendances Dunfermline were getting in tier three would put them among the best supported teams in Hungary. In comparison with the rest of the world I don't think we're quite the glory hunters we're sometimes made out to be.

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

No, it's not massively different, but then it's quite tough to get more saturation than that. I'm quite embarrassed by the situation in Scotland, walking out of Dundee bus station to be met by a Celtic shop is not a situation I'd have let stand if I was on Dundee City Council (well, I'm not sure if their powers reach that far, but you get my point). Scotland is in far from a unique situation though. Even in similar countries the same problem exists. FCK supporters have formed a larger chunk of the Danish population every season since they came into existence. Even in places like Odense or Aarhus you're more likely to see a teenager in an FCK shirt than their local club.

We all know that attendances in Scotland are very high but I also reckon (from the occasional trawl through http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm rather than any statistical comparison) that our attendances hold up very well as you go down through the leagues. Last season Arbroath had higher attendances in tier four than some top tier Greek, Belarussian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and Romanian clubs, probably a few others if I bothered checking them all. The attendances Dunfermline were getting in tier three would put them among the best supported teams in Hungary. In comparison with the rest of the world I don't think we're quite the glory hunters we're sometimes made out to be.

Hmm, i do take the point you're making but in Scotland football is ingrained. It's a lot bigger I'd say than any of those quoted countries per capital. If we take the Danish example, their population is very similar to Scotland however their top two teams average 13k-14k Celtic and Rangers are at least three times that plus talking about a massive number more armchair fans. In Turkey you have a population of 79 million but their top two teams are only averaging 20k and 30k respectively. (four other teams in Turkey with at least 50% of those average crowds, there are zero clubs in Scotland with 50% the OF average.  

I'm not sure how anyone can make a point that glory hunting in a country like Turkey with over 15 X the population of Scotland yet their top two teams being way less supported is worse than Rangers and Celtic in Scotland where 2% of the population would be inside either Ibrox or Celtic park if you take a sold out crowd at each ground? Likewise in Denmark with a similar sized population and less fans again. Scotland with a population of just over 5 million having two teams that can sell out 50k 60k arenas plus maintain shops in places like Dundee. I think the evidence is pretty clear, glory hunting in Scotland is much worse than these countries, if only because football is more popular. 

Sorry if that's worded poorly I'm running out work lol 

[DiegoDiego]

12 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

I'm not sure how anyone can make a point that glory hunting in a country like Turkey with over 15 X the population of Scotland yet their top two teams being way less supported is worse than Rangers and Celtic in Scotland where 2% of the population would be inside either Ibrox or Celtic park if you take a sold out crowd at each ground?

Not to get too bogged down in semantics, but I'm not really defining "support" as just paying at the gate, just like most of those Old Firm fans in Galashiels probably didn't go to many games.

In Scotland being a supporter=going to the games, the culture in other countries is different. Whenever one of Turkey's big three are playing there are hundreds of thousands of folk in bars and cafes across Ankara shouting at the TV. These folk definitely consider themselves supporters and have eschewed their local club to support one four hours away.

[Bazil85]

10 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Not to get too bogged down in semantics, but I'm not really defining "support" as just paying at the gate, just like most of those Old Firm fans in Galashiels probably didn't go to many games.

In Scotland being a supporter=going to the games, the culture in other countries is different. Whenever one of Turkey's big three are playing there are hundreds of thousands of folk in bars and cafes across Ankara shouting at the TV. These folk definitely consider themselves supporters and have eschewed their local club to support one four hours away.

I'm going to be honest with you mate, I think there are a lot more fans in Scotland in comparison to football supporting population that support Rangers and Celtic than support one of the top two in Turkey. All the evidence seems to suggest that. Like you say there are arm chair fans in both countries but pubs are just as packed when Rangers and Celtic play. You might disagree 

[Loonytoons]

6 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

No, it's not massively different, but then it's quite tough to get more saturation than that. I'm quite embarrassed by the situation in Scotland, walking out of Dundee bus station to be met by a Celtic shop is not a situation I'd have let stand if I was on Dundee City Council (well, I'm not sure if their powers reach that far, but you get my point). Scotland is in far from a unique situation though. Even in similar countries the same problem exists. FCK supporters have formed a larger chunk of the Danish population every season since they came into existence. Even in places like Odense or Aarhus you're more likely to see a teenager in an FCK shirt than their local club.

We all know that attendances in Scotland are very high but I also reckon (from the occasional trawl through http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm rather than any statistical comparison) that our attendances hold up very well as you go down through the leagues. Last season Arbroath had higher attendances in tier four than some top tier Greek, Belarussian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Serbian and Romanian clubs, probably a few others if I bothered checking them all. The attendances Dunfermline were getting in tier three would put them among the best supported teams in Hungary. In comparison with the rest of the world I don't think we're quite the glory hunters we're sometimes made out to be.

I'm pretty sure that Celtic shop has been shut for a number of years now.  There used to be a Rangers shop there too if I recall correctly.

On the Celtic links to Dundee, there was a huge influx of Irish immigrants into the area that is called Lochee, around 15 000 or so in the mid/late 1800's,  that must have been a substantial percentage of the population of Dundee at the time.   

Your point still stands, nevertheless.

[The Clyde Man]

I'm pretty sure that Celtic shop has been shut for a number of years now.  There used to be a Rangers shop there too if I recall correctly.
On the Celtic links to Dundee, there was a huge influx of Irish immigrants into the area that is called Lochee, around 15 000 or so in the mid/late 1800's,  that must have been a substantial percentage of the population of Dundee at the time.   
Your point still stands, nevertheless.

Is there not a Celtic Supporters Club in Dundee?

[Loonytoons]

Is there not a Celtic Supporters Club in Dundee?

Not a scooby.

[wastecoatwilly]

Went to the lowland league match tonight Cumbernauld  colts v gala fairydean ended 2-2,decent wee game £6
How much is it for a league 2 game?

[1320Lichtie]

Is there not a Celtic Supporters Club in Dundee?

There’s no official club or bar no. No shop now either, long gone.

[1320Lichtie]

Went to the lowland league match tonight Cumbernauld  colts v gala fairydean ended 2-2,decent wee game £6
How much is it for a league 2 game?

Depends. Adult about £12-£13 average.

[Doonhamer doon south]

10 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Depends. Adult about £12-£13 average.

 

Is that good value for the quality on offer. Queens are £16 which i think is very good. 

[1320Lichtie]

Is that good value for the quality on offer. Queens are £16 which i think is very good. 

I’d say so for us it usually is yeah but when we’re in that league we’re usually near the top.

£14 for us in League One this season.

I have a mate at work who is a Dundee fan but now comes along to Gayfield regularly with his son as parent and child is £16.

[Doonhamer doon south]

Lived in Arbroath as teen and never went to gayfield. Bit of a regret really.