Old Firm Colts in L2

[peternapper]

Its the development league that seems to be the problem, remove the age restriction call it what ever they want so a mix of players can get game time. Make it a separate identity with nothing to do with the existing league set-up. This would avoid making a mockery of our league and clubs that have more players than they know what to do with could either continue loan some out to a suitable level or in a league of similar young & older players rather than continue the development league which obviously some clubs don't think is up to the job.

[Bazil85]

18 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

This works both ways,colt players need to develop a winning menality as well as league 2 players,if they dont make the grade they will get binned tae its a tough education.

But there is no debate that they won't have the same drives as other clubs and players, do players in the devlopment league have the same drive? They can actually win trophies there but as many people have told you they don't. It's a complete nonsense post. Team are winning 1-0 with 10 minutes to go, are those players as likely to run down the clock by playing balls into the corner and taking as long as possible at goal kicks and throw ins? There's no point in them doing that when the result doesn't matter. I'm not saying that is the right thing to do in football but it's fact, sometimes teams need to win ugly. 

You're pretty clearly just hear to argue with everything and anything, even very obvious ogic that the winning mentality of Colts will be second to their personal development. Pretty sure if questioned any youth coach at Celtic or Rangers would say the same. 

[Bazil85]

19 hours ago, A Believer said:

I don't see it as baffling at at all. The fact that you say the colts 'will be' geared towards youth development suggests you're assuming. I was at a u-20's friendly with a junior club; one of them was sent off and both sides had to be spoke to about calming down!

I honestly don't see lack of competitive spirit being a factor; also every 20 is fighting to keep his place and catch the eye of the 1st team coaches. I'm kinda baffled why people think it's powder-puff. Any player not 100% on-it, doesn't last. These ARE the consequences.

Ok, most are not fully physically developed, but playing against seasoned seniors is good; as all our 20's do at their loan clubs.

 

So how can we further improve their physical and game development to increase conversion to 1st team? Again, don't start with 'not'; start with 'we could'

No one is questioning they won't want to win but their personal development will be the main mark of how they're measured by Celtic/ Rangers. I gave an example previously of them winning 1-0 with 10 minutes to go, would they run down the clock by time wasting? No development benefit in taking 2 minutes to kick the ball after a free-kick. Sometimes teams have to win ugly and defend leads with less that pretty tactics. The Colts won't need to worry about that. The same drives won't be there as other teams, you can give that one example but you can look at measurable evidence that bookings and sending offs are much much much less in development games than senior football. 

Colts will get more praise for playing good and devloped football and losing a game 2-1 than they will for winning 1-0 and holding the ball up in the corner for the last 25 minutes. 

[1320Lichtie]

Pre season friendlies in your season basically against a bunch of Bairns.

Regardless of any of that, how will this produce international players? Seriously? Why do people even have the slightest belief that it would?

[Bazil85]

14 hours ago, PELE said:

I remember watching the 1988 reserve league cup final between Hearts and Dundee United. The United team was mostly youngsters and Walter Kidd was upto every dirty trick in the book trying to put them off. Dragging his studs down the back of the young strikers calf muscle when the ref was not looking etc.

One game, do you think that level of competition would be allowed/ tolerated over a 38 game season?

Also good luck to a 17 year old Celtic/ Rangers Colt player dragging their studs over a 35 year old no nonsense L2, part-time player that might just support the other half of the bigot brothers. He'd be put up in the air the next time he got close to the ball. Great for player development...

[wastecoatwilly]

17 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

You’ve still not answered.

WOULD CELTIC PARK GET CLOSE TO SELLING OUT IF CELTIC WERE PUT INTO A EUROPEAN COMPETITION WITH BARCELONA’S AND OTHER BIGGER CLUBS B TEAMS AND WOULD ANY CELTIC FAN HAVE THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF INTEREST IN IT?

Would it not devalue European competition for you and completely ruin it????

 

Why would i want Spanish youth players to get better?
This question is totally irrelevant to young Scottish players getting better.

[1320Lichtie]

Why would i want Spanish youth players to get better?
This question is totally irrelevant to young Scottish players getting better.

You still haven’t answered the question.

I’ll take that as a yes the competition would be devalued and no you and other Celtic fans wouldn’t go.

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, Bazil85 said:

No one is questioning they won't want to win but their personal development will be the main mark of how they're measured by Celtic/ Rangers. I gave an example previously of them winning 1-0 with 10 minutes to go, would they run down the clock by time wasting? No development benefit in taking 2 minutes to kick the ball after a free-kick. Sometimes teams have to win ugly and defend leads with less that pretty tactics. The Colts won't need to worry about that. The same drives won't be there as other teams, you can give that one example but you can look at measurable evidence that bookings and sending offs are much much much less in development games than senior football. 

Colts will get more praise for playing good and devloped football and losing a game 2-1 than they will for winning 1-0 and holding the ball up in the corner for the last 25 minutes. 

Any scenario you put forward is a education and a learning experience to the colt teams which in turn will help them develop, winning ugly or winning with a performance every different way to win a game of football,football is not an exact science.

[wastecoatwilly]

6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

You still haven’t answered the question.

I’ll take that as a yes the competition would be devalued and no you and other Celtic fans wouldn’t go.

 

You are posting mince does the Barcelona b team progress into the next round? How would i know weather the rest of the Celtic support will go to games?
Why would i want Spanish youth players to get better? It has absolutely got nothing to do with this proposal with this hypothetical imperative. 
 

[1320Lichtie]

You are posting mince does the Barcelona b team progress into the next round? How would i know weather the rest of the Celtic support will go to games? Why would i want Spanish youth players to get better? It has absolutely got nothing to do with this proposal with this hypothetical imperative. 

 

 

 

No they don’t it’s meaningless to them they can’t get through. And what’s your opinion on it? I think we all know that they wouldn’t.

 

And ok then, let’s say Celtics first team was uninvited to a new league containing the top half of the Scottish Premiership but to enhance Scottish youth development, Rangers/Aberdeen/Hibs and Hearts B teams took their place. Would that devalue the league and competition to you? Would Celtics crowds drop? Would you lose interest? Would that be worth it week to week even if it did mean Scottish players turned into world beaters???

 

It’s funny as f**k seeing you scramble about when the realisation actually hits of how bad this would be as a supporter.

 

ETA: Celtics crowds dropped immensely just without Rangers FIRST TEAM ffs. Half empty stadiums even when you were winning the league cause Rangers weren’t there. [emoji1]

[Loonytoons]

You are posting mince does the Barcelona b team progress into the next round? How would i know weather the rest of the Celtic support will go to games?
Why would i want Spanish youth players to get better? It has absolutely got nothing to do with this proposal with this hypothetical imperative. 
 

It potentially does have something to do with the proposal though.

There was no stipulation that the Sevco/OF youth teams being dumped upon L2 teams had to be 100% Scottish, yet the main reason for this fag-packet idea was, allegedly, to improve our national squad.
So what's to stop foreign youth players from Spain or any other country, being developed through this current system?

But you already know this as it has been pointed out multiple times.

[wastecoatwilly]

6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

No they don’t it’s meaningless to them they can’t get through. And what’s your opinion on it? I think we all know that they wouldn’t.

And ok then, let’s say Celtics first team was uninvited to a new league containing the top half of the Scottish Premiership but to enhance Scottish youth development, Rangers/Aberdeen/Hibs and Hearts B teams took their place. Would that devalue the league and competition to you? Would that be worth it week to week even if it did mean Scottish players turned into world beaters???

 

Look i don't get this devaluing the league mince,every game will count the league 2 team will have to make sure they beat the colt teams in case other teams don't.it doesn't make it any less competitive,colt teams are part of the league, teams that drop points or gain points against colt team is it a advantage or a disadvantage.
Scenario if teams are going to say after he event if we had beat the colt teams we would have won the league it will be sour grapes in their part. 

[Loonytoons]

Look i don't get this devaluing the league mince,every game will count the league 2 team will have to make sure they beat the colt teams in case other teams don't.it doesn't make it any less competitive,colt teams are part of the league, teams that drop points or gain points against colt team is it a advantage or a disadvantage.
Scenario if teams are going to say after he event if we had beat the colt teams we would have won the league it will be sour grapes in their part. 

But the fans of lower league football see the "mince" as devaluing the league and will refuse to watch those games.
That, in itself, devalues the league.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

[1320Lichtie]

Look i don't get this devaluing the league mince,every game will count the league 2 team will have to make sure they beat the colt teams in case other teams don't.it doesn't make it any less competitive,colt teams are part of the league, teams that drop points or gain points against colt team is it a advantage or a disadvantage.
Scenario if teams are going to say after he event if we had beat the colt teams we would have won the league it will be sour grapes in their part. 

So you wouldn’t think that a league of

Celtic
Rangers B
Aberdeen B
Hibs B
Hearts B
Partick
Dundee
Ross County
Well
Hamilton
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock


Would devalue Celtic winning the competition? You don’t think Celtic fans would stop going? You don’t think it would ruin the league?

You are a liar [emoji1]

[wastecoatwilly]

1 minute ago, Loonytoons said:

But the fans of lower league football see the "mince" as devaluing the league and will refuse to watch those games.
That, in itself, devalues the league.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

As a say before you put a 100 fans in a room and you won't get them to agree,how can you devalue the league when every teams knows the rules before the league starts?

[1320Lichtie]

So you wouldn’t think that a league of

Celtic
Rangers B
Aberdeen B
Hibs B
Hearts B
Partick
Dundee
Ross County
Well
Hamilton
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock


Would devalue Celtic winning the competition? You don’t think Celtic fans would stop going? You don’t think it would ruin the league?

You are a liar [emoji1]

Every team knows the rules before the league starts.

Same questions?

[haufdaft]

 

 

 

Look i don't get this devaluing the league mince,

 

 

 

This is why you lack credibility in everything else you put forward. It's the arrogance of an old firm fan.

 

 

 

Scenario if teams are going to say after he event if we had beat the colt teams we would have won the league it will be sour grapes in their part. 

 

 

 

You should know.

 

When it comes to sour grapes, Celtic fans are without comparison.

 

 

 

[1320Lichtie]

 
 
 

 
 
 
You should know.
 
When it comes to sour grapes, Celtic fans are without comparison.
 
 
 

[emoji23][emoji1360]

[wastecoatwilly]

7 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

So you wouldn’t think that a league of

Celtic
Rangers B
Aberdeen B
Hibs B
Hearts B
Partick
Dundee
Ross County
Well
Hamilton
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock


Would devalue Celtic winning the competition? You don’t think Celtic fans would stop going? You don’t think it would ruin the league?

You are a liar

 

I think killie would be happy with that set up,why are you deflecting away from this proposal with this hypothetical mince? 

[Loonytoons]

As a say before you put a 100 fans in a room and you won't get them to agree,how can you devalue the league when every teams knows the rules before the league starts?

FANS WON'T GO THE THE YOUTH GAMES, that right there in capital letters is one of the reasons the league is devalued.

It's devalued as a viewing spectacle.

There is also the worry that many just wouldn't go to ANY game, which has been threatened here by more than one poster.

If that happens, it's devalued financially too.

It's devalued, too, by the big teams and governing bodies thinking that using the lower leagues as a guinea pig scenario and kindergarten is acceptable.

Other than that, and probably a few more obvious reasons such as the current proposers sucking up even more young talent, you're possibly correct (but you're not).