No Voters - what say you?

[sophia]

2 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

 statistics        and stuff

We're moving beyond this 

too poor / not too poor

pantomime and looking towards a future structure that we can shape.

Its quite a simple concept. 

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We have been hearing this hype about AI for decades and decades.

Manual labour will probably be largely wiped out but there will always be a vast number of well paid jobs for those in the middle who can adapt to change quickly. It has always been thus and will always be thus. AI will never replace lawyers, doctors, software engineers, designers, artists, musicians or a whole raft of other jobs. I think people can rest easy.

 

 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

You do realise that almost all economic statistics are derived from estimates using, among other sources, independent surveys, right? Especially imports. They can get a rough estimate from sales taxes and customs and excise duties actually returned to national tax authorities, but that cannot tell them beyond informed estimates about economic activity not covered by or attracting no relevant taxes. Both national GDP figures and balances of trade are, always have been, and always will be, estimates and not something done to the level of specificity of a company's accounts checking-off every pound and pence. This is just as true for trade between independent countries, for which at most there is somewhat more reporting and data, as it is for representative figures for trade within parts of the same country.

The important part here is not that these surveys and other collected data do not cover literally every export transaction. They cover enough of market activity, and represent trends closely enough, that mean estimates can be made with a high level of confidence (high 90s%) to be within 5% of what they actually are. The actual position may be marginally at variance with the headline figure, but the point is they can say, and almost never be wrong, that they are not wildly incorrect.

This also explains why GDP and PSBR figures are often retrospectively rated up or down, sometimes slightly, sometimes drastically. Economics isn't accounting.

I file the ONS returns at my work, and can safely say that they are the most sensible, accurate, and carefully put together stats you could possibly imagine.

Not fucked together in 3 seconds because some c**t in Wales is chasing you for numbers while it is your turn to make the tea. No way, honest.

[git-intae-thum]

5 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

I file the ONS returns at my work, and can safely say that they are the most sensible, accurate, and carefully put together stats you could possibly imagine.

Not fucked together in 3 seconds because some c**t in Wales is chasing you for numbers while it is your turn to make the tea. No way, honest.

nae luck libby.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

One thing I've always believed is the idea (and I can't remember where I first heard it articulated) that a production worker should be able to afford to buy the products he makes - or at least have a realistic aspiration of getting to the stage where he can. This was, I believe, understood in the US Car Industry back when Detroit didn't look like the Robocop set.

Feed the profits back to the workers and guess what? They'll actually spend the money they earn, thereby keeping a real, tangible economy working.

Ratios should be capped - sure, some top-earning CEOs will fúck off, but is their job really so hard that they are irreplaceable - that there aren't perfectly competent people willing to take over for a fraction of the price because their motivation is, unfashionably, doing the work well rather than the amount of money (above what provides a very, very good living) they can extract from the company?

AI, robots and technology in general should be making everyone's lives easier - instead they've become just another tool for those in power to frighten those without into accepting whatever crumbs will keep them in their place.

Edited March 24, 2017 by WhiteRoseKillie

[Dunning1874]

Enjoying this automation discussion. The answer, of course, is to move towards a universal basic income, which is the essential stepping stone towards FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM

[vikingTON]

The only way to make UBI work is to break down the prestige and social status granted to full-time employment/"a proper job" in industrial societies. Which is pretty much the point where the likes of oaksoft will alight the (automated) train and campaign for Victorian style workhouses instead.

[Dunning1874]

Just now, virginton said:

The only way to make UBI work is to break down the prestige and social status granted to full-time employment/"a proper job" in industrial societies. Which is pretty much the point where the likes of oaksoft will alight the (automated) train and campaign for Victorian style workhouses instead.

Remove drivers and you remove any controversy over driver operated doors. Flawless.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

8 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Feed the profits back to the workers?

How much of the profits?

How will the investors be rewarded? Those are the guys who paid money into the comlany which allowed the company to expand and hire all those workers in the first place. How are they to be rewarded? Or are they to f**k off as well? Who then will fund our aspiring companies expansions?

The country would be at 50% unemployment overnight.

Private investors? You mean parasites. State investment is fine, but anyone who has any sympathy for these leeches getting rich off the sweat of others deserves all they get.

Where do you think these cúnts get the money to invest?

The likes of Branson and James fucking Dyson are scum - treating their employees like resource units, not people. You can have a perfectly fine standard of living without having your own fucking island, beardy.  As for Dyson, he sucked off the Public Purse teat for long enough before being able to convince someone to buy his ball-barrow (not a common sight these days) - once the big bucks started rolling in, he fucked his whole operation off to the Far East, where he could really cut production costs, what with the lack of workers' rights and H&S legislation. 

[dogmc]

Private investors? You mean parasites. State investment is fine, but anyone who has any sympathy for these leeches getting rich off the sweat of others deserves all they get.
Where do you think these cúnts get the money to invest?
The likes of Branson and James fucking Dyson are scum - treating their employees like resource units, not people. You can have a perfectly fine standard of living without having your own fucking island, beardy.  As for Dyson, he sucked off the Public Purse teat for long enough before being able to convince someone to buy his ball-barrow (not a common sight these days) - once the big bucks started rolling in, he fucked his whole operation off to the Far East, where he could really cut production costs, what with the lack of workers' rights and H&S legislation. 

Good post. Branson inherited his cash from his dad lost most of it then lucked out cos tubular bells sold a shit load. The vast majority of his businesses went bust through awful mismanagement both operationally and financially. I worked for 16 years in cinema mgement n his virgin cinema operation was an utter car crash.

[NotThePars]

Not enough was made of how Branson weaponised the Corbyn incident to turn the media completely against even a minor discussion of nationalising the disgraceful state of our rail services in the country.

[dogmc]

Not enough was made of how Branson weaponised the Corbyn incident to turn the media completely against even a minor discussion of nationalising the disgraceful state of our rail services in the country.

Indeed....multi millionaires like Branson n Rowling will rail against anything that might change the status quo. They aren't concerned about the horrible impact of tory austerity so long as they are still coining it in.

[NotThePars]

Indeed....multi millionaires like Branson n Rowling will rail against anything that might change the status quo. They aren't concerned about the horrible impact of tory austerity so long as they are still coining it in.

Rowling's divorced from the reality that doesn't include her fictional wizards lol.

[dogmc]

Rowling's divorced from the reality that doesn't include her fictional wizards lol.

No doubt but she's still savvy enough to know which side her toast is buttered. Status quo keeps the tax breaks coming while millions of families rely on food banks to be able to feed their kids. Not the band obviously.....

[John Lambies Doos]

Do No voters agree that democracy worked today? I mean it was in the manifesto and there has been a material change.... so no point spouting that once in a generation shite.
Generally interested.... or do they just believe the shortbread senate is a waste of space?

[NotThePars]

No doubt but she's still savvy enough to know which side her toast is buttered. Status quo keeps the tax breaks coming while millions of families rely on food banks to be able to feed their kids. Not the band obviously.....

TBF she has given tons of her money away. I don't think it's economic self interest that motivates her rather she wholeheartedly believes in Blairite politics.

[dogmc]

 

 

TBF she has given tons of her money away. I don't think it's economic self interest that motivates her rather she wholeheartedly believes in Blairite politics.

Including millions to a campaign which ultimately ensured Scotland was forced to endure more tory rule and austerity. I'm sure her charitable donations in no way at all affected her tax liabilities.....Eta it's odd how many millionaires believe in Blairite politics and how few people reliant on foodbanks are so keen on Tony.

 

[NotThePars]

Including millions to a campaign which ultimately ensured Scotland was forced to endure more tory rule and austerity. I'm sure her charitable donations in no way at all affected her tax liabilities.....Eta it's odd how many millionaires believe in Blairite politics and how few people reliant on foodbanks are so keen on Tony.
 

Sure she's given away about a billion or summit? There probably is some self interest but I do think she subscribes to that politics as it was where she wrote the books and escapes poverty herself. It's a total toxic view of course and feeds into that idea that you just need one idea and you too can make it rich. Vile.

[sparky88]

58 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Do No voters agree that democracy worked today? I mean it was in the manifesto and there has been a material change.... so no point spouting that once in a generation shite.
Generally interested.... or do they just believe the shortbread senate is a waste of space?

What part of democracy is it when the SNP ignore their own manifesto pledges on reforming the council tax and cutting class sizes?

The referendum buys the SNP a few years in which they don't have to do anything worthwhile to improve people's lives whilst keeping the subs rolling in.

[dogmc]

Sure she's given away about a billion or summit? There probably is some self interest but I do think she subscribes to that politics as it was where she wrote the books and escapes poverty herself. It's a total toxic view of course and feeds into that idea that you just need one idea and you too can make it rich. Vile.

A billion??? Highly doubt that tbh. Millionaire celebs always talk big about charitable donations....very rarely are accounts shown to prove the veracity of those claims