superpollok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 What is the reason for the proposed change in KO.I assume that their is a believe that it would make attendances grow? If that is the case what is the validation around that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 44 minutes ago, superpollok said: What is the reason for the proposed change in KO. I assume that their is a believe that it would make attendances grow? If that is the case what is the validation around that? The earlier kick off clashes with the lunchtime telly games, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpollok Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The earlier kick off clashes with the lunchtime telly games, Thought it would be to do with that, but still not sure if the reality is that attendances will go up? Fair enough to try it, but the reality is if people want to watch senior football, especially the EPL or the OF you don't need to rely on games on Sky and BT to watch it, you can watch every 3pm game on a Saturday too. So is there really any interest from these people between choosing sitting in a pub or on sofa watching football v going to a junior match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, superpollok said: Thought it would be to do with that, but still not sure if the reality is that attendances will go up? Fair enough to try it, but the reality is if people want to watch senior football, especially the EPL or the OF you don't need to rely on games on Sky and BT to watch it, you can watch every 3pm game on a Saturday too. So is there really any interest from these people between choosing sitting in a pub or on sofa watching football v going to a junior match? I'm not sure I buy it either to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Apologies if it's been covered in this thread and I've misunderstood... but is the choice therefore between 4 region-wide divisions of 16 each and the status quo? No compromise plan for 2 region-wide divisions + 2 districts beneath? Also what's situation regarding Sectional Cups - they were turning into knockout cups, IIRC, but this still meant a huge increase in games for the current SuperPremier level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Apologies if it's been covered in this thread and I've misunderstood... but is the choice therefore between 4 region-wide divisions of 16 each and the status quo? No compromise plan for 2 region-wide divisions + 2 districts beneath? The compromise plan you suggest is the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'm meaning: 16 16 16-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 30 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Apologies if it's been covered in this thread and I've misunderstood... but is the choice therefore between 4 region-wide divisions of 16 each and the status quo? No compromise plan for 2 region-wide divisions + 2 districts beneath? Also what's situation regarding Sectional Cups - they were turning into knockout cups, IIRC, but this still meant a huge increase in games for the current SuperPremier level. Unless another restructure motion that we don't know about yet has been submitted (or is before the deadline) then the regionalised 3rd tier version in the original Whitletts proposal is no longer under current consideration. If there's still interest in it (which I doubt) it could be resurrected as an amendment following the April West Region GM. The 2nd Whitletts proposal for advance scheduling of fixtures, now also finalised after discussion with other clubs, is also up for consideration as an AGM motion. The 3rd proposal for changing the Sectional Cups into two half-regional knockout cups has been abandoned, for this year at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 At the AGM any amendments to a motion are voted on first, then the final vote is between the substantive motion (with any accepted amendment) vs the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Ta. So if there is no amendment, could there be a risk smaller clubs who do not want to play region-wide... and maybe Ayrshire clubs who don't want to drop into a 4th level... will have to vote for the status quo? Also if Sectional Cups are being retained and nothing scrapped - how will SuperPremier clubs cope with number of leagues games being increased from 22 to 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Ta. 1. So if there is no amendment, could there be a risk smaller clubs who do not want to play region-wide... and maybe Ayrshire clubs who don't want to drop into a 4th level... will have to vote for the status quo? 2. Also if Sectional Cups are being retained and nothing scrapped - how will SuperPremier clubs cope with number of leagues games being increased from 22 to 30? 1. Yes, so if neither scenario suits them, they should put in their own motion or an amendment. 2. One of the major driving forces for Super Premier clubs who are supporting this is precisely in order to get an increase in the number of home league fixtures per season and thereby augment their guaranteed income from gate takings and associated sources. The additional fixtures CAN be accommodated within the existing season, although my personal preference would be to scrap the late-season divisional cups which attract poor crowds and can be a financial drain on clubs whose league season is complete and who have to hold onto and pay players they would rather release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Cheers. Take your point about some clubs wanting more league games but as we reach the last weekend in March the top 4 in the SuperPremier have all got 9 games remaining (this is after a fairly mild winter) - with a 30 game league season they would have 17 remaining and still be short of halfway. Heck of a lot of matches to fit in. Contrast the minimum number across various leagues (excluding the Scottish Cup and playoffs)... HL = 34 + 2 knockout cups = 34; LL = 30 + 3 ko cups = 33; EOSL = 22 + 5 QL games + 4 ko cups or stages = 31; SOSL = 26 + 6 ko cups = 32; East junior 30 + SJC + 2 ko cups = 33; North 26 + SJC + 4 sectional cup + 3 ko cups or stages = 34; West proposal 30 + SJC + 5 sectional cup + 3 ko cups or stages = 39. Plus in West Juniors you take holiday weekends in September; don't play under floodlight; have to get finished for the League-Winners' Cup; and so on. Similarly the figures if clubs started in the last 64, 32, 16 or whatever of each cup and reached all SFs (again excluding the Scottish Cup and playoffs): Highland ... 34 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 42 Lowland ... 30 + 5 + 4 + 3 = 42 EOSL ... 22 + 5 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 = 41 SOSL ... 26 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 46 East Juniors ... 30 + 7 + 5 + 4 = 46 plus SJC replays North Juniors ... 26 + 5 + 7 + 4 + 4 + 3 = 48 plus SJC replays (in practice North clubs seldom progress deep in SJC or North-Tayside Cup) West Junior proposal ... 30 + 5 + 7 + 5 + 4 + 2 = 53 plus SJC replays plus League-Winners' Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Your calculation of the no. of fixtures for West Region clubs after the proposed reorganisation is incorrect. It would be 38 minimum, not 39 as you state, and only that if all cup competitions are retained as they currently are. Look at it another way, we're still in March and several West Region clubs have all but finished their League fixtures already (Kilbirnie, Ardrossan, Saltcoats, Perthshire & Vale of Leven 20/22, Cumnock, Largs, Whitletts & St Anthony's 19/22, Arthurlie, Troon, Ardeer, Lugar & Port Glasgow 18/22) and with only 1 or 2 home fixtures left and the odd cup-tie, where are they to get income from to sustain them till the start of a new season in August?? Why should these clubs be left to struggle because a handful of others have fixture backlogs created by unusual success, or because their home grounds are quagmires? There are several ways in which additional fixtures can be accommodated within the existing official Junior football season, like: Start the league fixtures earlier (it has already been agreed that friendly fixtures can start earlier, in July) and play more early-season midweek fixtures. Scrap the nonsensical September weekend exemptions (R1 of the SJFA cup has already been played on the Glasgow weekend for at least a couple of seasons) Abolish or reorganise the Sectional and District Cups (the Central versions have no sponsor anyway and alternative formats have already been suggested by WV, JB and others). Switch games to other venues, playing midweek under floodlights if necessary to catch up on fixture backlogs caused by pitches not being able to handle the weather. Most of all, though, have a planned fixture list for the season, so that postponed games can be fitted in to the earliest available date/time, and do away with the largely random, make-it-up-as-you-go-along approach of the current West Region regime, which makes forward planning impossible and leads to all sorts of insane anomalies such as no home fixtures for weeks on end or too many in too short a time so that grass pitches cannot recover in between. DISCLAIMER: the above comments are the opinion of the individual poster and should not be assumed necessarily to be the official policy of the club with which he is associated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of the juniors Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Thought it would be to do with that, but still not sure if the reality is that attendances will go up? Fair enough to try it, but the reality is if people want to watch senior football, especially the EPL or the OF you don't need to rely on games on Sky and BT to watch it, you can watch every 3pm game on a Saturday too. So is there really any interest from these people between choosing sitting in a pub or on sofa watching football v going to a junior match? Can only speak on what I see at Ladeside & it does make a difference . Not a huge difference I grant you but maybe 20/30 folk will stroll down after the game at lunchtime especially if it involves either Celtic or Rangers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm meaning: 16 1616-16 There aren't enough teams in Ayrshire to have a 16-team District League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Statistically Pollok's crowds went down in the seasons after lunchtime starts were introduced. They have bounced back since (a bit) but would suggest that it is new fans rather then the ones who stopped going coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugent4nil Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Can anyone post the latest proposal on here so the supporters who haven't seen it yet can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 hours ago, glensmad said: There aren't enough teams in Ayrshire to have a 16-team District League. Was there not a proposal that a few of the teams currently playing in the Central District leagues could migrate into a mainly Ayrshire league. I'm thinking of the Renfrewshire and South Lanarkshire clubs which are not really so far distant from many of the Ayrshire oners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugent4nil Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, garrellburn said: Was there not a proposal that a few of the teams currently playing in the Central District leagues could migrate into a mainly Ayrshire league. I'm thinking of the Renfrewshire and South Lanarkshire clubs which are not really so far distant from many of the Ayrshire oners. Neilston for example who played in the Ayrshire leagues for years and are the only non Ayrshire team to lift the Ayrshire Cup to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, garrellburn said: Was there not a proposal that a few of the teams currently playing in the Central District leagues could migrate into a mainly Ayrshire league. I'm thinking of the Renfrewshire and South Lanarkshire clubs which are not really so far distant from many of the Ayrshire oners. 1 hour ago, Nugent4nil said: Neilston for example who played in the Ayrshire leagues for years and are the only non Ayrshire team to lift the Ayrshire Cup to my knowledge. That was the original Whitletts proposal (and one part of the original Pollok proposal) which was dropped as feedback was strongly against it and in favour of the region-wide 4 x 16-club divisions that are now in the motion submitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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