Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said: 1 hour ago, sophia said: That's not my recollection. Dennis Healey had to go to the IMF to get enough cash to pay the bills. The narrative was that he had to get a bail-out was scandalous and humiliating. The internecine war in the Labour Party was never ending and whilst they were fighting, the country was a shambles. Just as well things have changed! The loan was 1.7bn and it was repaid by 1979. It was needed primarily because they couldn't get a public expenditure bill through the commons. The narrative was set by the newspapers. The irony is that the loan wasn't needed. The government's accounts were in a complete mess and when they were sorted out they discovered they were in a healthier position than they'd thought. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, sophia said: That's not my recollection. Dennis Healey had to go to the IMF to get enough cash to pay the bills. The narrative was that he had to get a bail-out was scandalous and humiliating. The bailout was totally unnecessary and only happened because the treasury didn't understand how fiat currency functioned after the US pulled out of Bretton Woods. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 So we're all agreed that the Labour government was incompetent then? Just as well they never sold the gold. Who would ever do such a daft thing? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, sophia said: So we're all agreed that the Labour government was incompetent then? No. They were rather more competent than the preceding or succeeding Conservative governments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Tibbermoresaint said: The irony is that the loan wasn't needed. The government's accounts were in a complete mess and when they were sorted out they discovered they were in a healthier position than they'd thought. 44 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: No. They were rather more competent than the preceding or succeeding Conservative governments. I wish you'd make up your mind as I'm rather perplexed .... oh I see, you're bar for competence is a Westminster one and I'm sure we're all agreed that that is a very low threshold indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, sophia said: I wish you'd make up your mind as I'm rather perplexed .... oh I see, you're bar for competence is a Westminster one and I'm sure we're all agreed that that is a very low threshold indeed. Competence is relative. 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Yeah, the 70's were so good and Labour were so competent that it took them the arse end of 20 years to be voted back into power again despite Thatcher being in charge. Labour have only been in power for about 13 of the 40 years which have passed since 1979 and you'd be brave to put money on them getting back into power for the forseeable future. Rose-tinted glasses are one thing but trying to re-write history simply isn't on. I'm not the one trying to rewrite history here. Dominic Sandbrook's written a couple of very good books on the 70's. Read them and come back to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I don't need to. I actually lived through it. As did I. Your point is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Labour have only been in power for about 13 of the 40 years which have passed since 1979 That's if you can really say they were Labour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Labour are a shambles. f**k em. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, oaksoft said: You are re-writing history. Check the colour maps for the General Elections in 1979, 1983 and 1987. Massive swathes of Scotland voted Tory. Almost every part of England including the North, voted Tory as well. That party, and Thatcher in particular, was well supported across the entire UK with the exception of Wales from what I can see. When’s the last time the Tories commanded more support in Scotland than any other party? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: When’s the last time the Tories commanded more support in Scotland than any other party? When Fidel Castro rose to power in Cuba. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, oaksoft said: My point is, you've been presented with a specific couple of arguments about Labour and conditions in the 1970s. Responding with the single word "Nonsense" or responding by saying "read this book" is not a grown up way of dealing with someone else's argument. I'm not interested in your fantasies. I am interested in facts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, oaksoft said: They moved away from Old Labour because they were repeatedly being destroyed by Thatcher at the polls. New Labour got them into power until people tired of the New Labour spin bullshit, illegal wars etc. Now we appear to be back to Old Labour and once again they are being defeated in every election The conclusion is presumably that there is probably no obvious version of Labour which is now of interest to sufficient parts of the electorate to be voted into power. Good point. Why should we stay in the UK again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I gave you several facts but don't worry about responding to them because I'm not interested in debating with someone like you. Go and talk to other people. We are done here. Of course you aren't interested in debating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I'm not sure why you are asking this because nobody has raised it. Are you incapable of using Google? I’ve raised it therefore someone has raised it. l 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yeah, the 70's were so good and Labour were so competent that it took them the arse end of 20 years to be voted back into power again despite Thatcher being in charge. Labour have only been in power for about 13 of the 40 years which have passed since 1979 and you'd be brave to put money on them getting back into power for the forseeable future. Rose-tinted glasses are one thing but trying to re-write history simply isn't on.Thatcher would have been out on her ear after one term if it wasn't for the Falklands. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 When’s the last time the Tories commanded more support in Scotland than any other party?1955 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: When’s the last time the Tories commanded more support in Scotland than any other party? 1955 Yes 1955, the year in which I was born. These two things are not a coincidence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Yes 1955, the year in which I was born. Aye and the last time we elected a labour prime minister that wasn't called Harold or Tony, your mother was most likely in primary school 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 50 minutes ago, sophia said: Aye and the last time we elected a labour prime minister that wasn't called Harold or Tony, your mother was most likely in primary school You're getting confused. We don’t elect a Prime Minister. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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