New clubs in the East of Scotland

[FairWeatherFan]

45 minutes ago, GordonS said:

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

BSC Glasgow created out of the Broomhill Sports Club based at Broomhill Primary School. Broomhill Primary to Maryhill FC is only a couple of miles away, basically on their doorstep. BSC Glasgow played at Maryhill for the 2014/15 and 2015/16 seasons. Two full seasons, they never imagined they would of been playing in Alloa.
And the reason they never went the Gartcairn route is the obvious answer, they never wanted to be a Junior Football club. If they wanted Junior football they could of simply linked up with Maryhill FC. Just like Cumbernauld Colts could of linked up with Cumbernauld United instead of creating a club of their own.
BSC Glasgow, Cumbernauld Colts, Bonnyton Thistle, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts and now looking like Syngenta. All youth clubs that had existed in some form for quite sometime. Any one of them could of created a Junior side if they wanted, turns out the SJFA isn't that attractive from those that exist outside of it.

I honestly don't know how that's a reply to what I've posted. Are you saying it's ok for a club to play absolutely nowhere near their home community just because they don't like any of the leagues available to them there? I think we just need to disagree on this one.

Turns out when they were accepted into the Lowland League they had a 3 year agreement with Ashfield FC less than 4 miles from Broomhill Primary. http://slfl.co.uk/bsc-glasgow-introduction/

That obviously never worked out, they ended up at Maryhill which is less than 2 miles from Broomhill Primary.

They never expected to be in Alloa, didn't plan to be in Alloa. However they are making the best of the situation, just like the likes of Kirkintilloch Rob Roy having to play out of Cumbernauld. Should KRR call it a day or is the 7 miles between Kirkintilloch and Cumbernauld short enough to still represent their home community?

[Glenconner]

BSC play in the LL because that was an option for them when the LL was set up. Pre the LL being set up the choice was limited with no doors leading to playing in the same league as Albion Rovers or Cowdenbeath.  Any of the big guns in the East or West Juniors could just as easily made a bid to join the LL set up in the beginning. Knowledge after the event is a great thing. You can bet if a team like Clydebank had access to a time machine they’d go back and apply for LL membership. I’m more curious where teams like BSC/EK/Cumbernauld Colts etc get the money from to run teams at that level. It’s certainly isn’t from gate money. On paper BSC must lose money every time they play a home game.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Glenconner

[HibeeJibee]

19 hours ago, Vollyman said:

What would happen if an EOS club gained promotion had owned their ground for decades but did not have a ground licence, would they be allowed to play away from their community at a ground that had a licence?

There is no such thing as a "ground licence".

If they were able to gain promotion at all - which means holding an Entry level club licence - their ground would already meet criteria to play in LL.

[parsforlife]

There is no such thing as a "ground licence".

If they were able to gain promotion at all - which means holding an Entry level club licence - their ground would already meet criteria to play in LL.

All correct, but I think it is an interesting question for those in authority.

IF a club had all other things lined up (let's say they are already engaged with the licensing process) but say were waiting on planning permission to complete ground works would it be sensible for them to remain at their home ground whilst EoS and not have a license but if in a position to get promoted arrange a ground share and submit a license application based on that?

[HibeeJibee]

Possibly I've misunderstood the premise but I don't follow: how could they have participated in a playoff, nevermind have won it and been promoted, if they didn't have a licence to start with? Clubs can't get promoted and only then go away to try and get licensed in June or July, leaving defeated opponents and/or relegated clubs in limbo.

Edited October 20, 2018 by HibeeJibee

[Jerry Macguire]

On 19/10/2018 at 23:20, GordonS said:

Nope. What I'm saying is they're putting ambition to be as high up the tree as possible ahead of the absolute basics, like playing in their community and creating some infrastructure.

As for "did that all by themselves"; actually no, Alloa Athletic built the ground over decades and BSC are just renting it. All BSC do for themselves is collect enough cash to rent the ground and pay a manager and players.

When Gretna's "ambition" caused them to be liquidated, at least there was a decent ground in the town around which a new club could be created. Kelty have spent hundreds of thousands on facilities that will last decades and will help them generate income. If BSC folded tomorrow there'd be nothing left but a pile of strips. 

FWIW what BSC do for kids is obviously great; it's just the men's football team that leaves me cold. If I were you I wouldn't let that bother me and I won't mention it again here.

 I tell you what Gordon. For someone who won’t mention it again, your certainly milking it. 

[Jerry Macguire]

The fact is we are here and we’re not going away. You can flap your gums all you want about the rights and wrongs of it. But the fact is we did things the wrong way round. Most clubs set up a senior team and call themselves a community club. In most cases their not wrong. Their a club in a community. Some will engage more in their community by setting up a youth programme, women’s football team, perhaps even an amateur team and some won’t. None of them would have done all that first and then set up a senior men’s team. 

We did that to give our kids a pathway into the profesional game.

[GordonS]

 I tell you what Gordon. For someone who won’t mention it again, your certainly milking it. 

I was replying to someone else, was that not clear to you?

[GordonS]

Turns out when they were accepted into the Lowland League they had a 3 year agreement with Ashfield FC less than 4 miles from Broomhill Primary. http://slfl.co.uk/bsc-glasgow-introduction/
That obviously never worked out, they ended up at Maryhill which is less than 2 miles from Broomhill Primary.
They never expected to be in Alloa, didn't plan to be in Alloa. However they are making the best of the situation, just like the likes of Kirkintilloch Rob Roy having to play out of Cumbernauld. Should KRR call it a day or is the 7 miles between Kirkintilloch and Cumbernauld short enough to still represent their home community?

That obviously makes absolutely no difference. They knew they would need a licensed ground, did they not? So what was the plan?

[FairWeatherFan]

3 hours ago, GordonS said:

15 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Turns out when they were accepted into the Lowland League they had a 3 year agreement with Ashfield FC less than 4 miles from Broomhill Primary. http://slfl.co.uk/bsc-glasgow-introduction/
That obviously never worked out, they ended up at Maryhill which is less than 2 miles from Broomhill Primary.
They never expected to be in Alloa, didn't plan to be in Alloa. However they are making the best of the situation, just like the likes of Kirkintilloch Rob Roy having to play out of Cumbernauld. Should KRR call it a day or is the 7 miles between Kirkintilloch and Cumbernauld short enough to still represent their home community?

That obviously makes absolutely no difference. They knew they would need a licensed ground, did they not? So what was the plan?

They participated in the Scottish Cup in their second season. Which means they had access to a ground that met the requirements of licencing prior to the move to Alloa.

So the plan at that point was to rent a ground 2 miles from their birthplace until they could organize their own. At the time they probably hadn't exhausted all the possibilities and it seemed an easier goal.

[Jerry Macguire]

7 hours ago, GordonS said:

8 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:

 I tell you what Gordon. For someone who won’t mention it again, your certainly milking it. 

I was replying to someone else, was that not clear to you?

So really what you meant to say was

“I won’t mention it again until someone else does”.

[Marten]

Ultimately, BSC took a chance that was there because the lack of participation in the pyramid. If the pyramid had included all of non-league from the start, including the juniors, BSC either might never have made it to the Lowland League, or would have faced a long journey to get there. With the ex-juniors coming through now, the route to the LL is going to be much harder. Yet BSC have established themselves in the division and if they get a ground in their own community soon, they could even be knocking on the door of the SPFL. It's absolutely fair enough if some people are uneasy about the route they've taken, it's not the most regular one, but fair play on them that they grabbed their chance and are doing it in their way. And let's not forget that it's down to the likes of BSC, EK, Cumbernauld and so on that the pyramid isn't dead in the water now.

[Burnie_man]

9 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:

The fact is we are here and we’re not going away. You can flap your gums all you want about the rights and wrongs of it. But the fact is we did things the wrong way round. Most clubs set up a senior team and call themselves a community club. In most cases their not wrong. Their a club in a community. Some will engage more in their community by setting up a youth programme, women’s football team, perhaps even an amateur team and some won’t. None of them would have done all that first and then set up a senior men’s team. 

We did that to give our kids a pathway into the profesional game.

Do the kids fees help fund the senior team?

[Jerry Macguire]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Do the kids fees help fund the senior team?

No they don’t.

[HTG]

As someone who brought up BSC in the first place, it wasn't a dig at them. They're fulfilling the club licencing standards. My only point was that the SFA could or should consider whether it's reasonable to secure that licence by setting up shop a distance away from your community and that if you can't define "community" in the first place then questions should be asked. I completely accept that BSC would prefer not to play so far away from their home patch and didn't do so in the first instance. My issue isn't about ground sharing - that's a whole separate discussion and might well be a decent one to have. I'm sure the East Stirlingshire chaps would have views on it and I'm equally sure the percentage of football supporters who don't have sympathy for that club would be pretty low. 

[GordonS]

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

They participated in the Scottish Cup in their second season. Which means they had access to a ground that met the requirements of licencing prior to the move to Alloa.

So the plan at that point was to rent a ground 2 miles from their birthplace until they could organize their own. At the time they probably hadn't exhausted all the possibilities and it seemed an easier goal.

So they joined the LL without having any idea what licensed ground they'd use, knowing that they'd have to have one. Ashfield obviously isn't licensed so I don't understand why you think that makes a difference.

6 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:

So really what you meant to say was

“I won’t mention it again until someone else does”.

Yes, I won't mention it again to you. We'd got to the end of the argument. You think I should say to FairWeatherFan "I'm sorry sir, but I swore an omerta to Jerry Macguire so I'm not allowed to answer your post"? And all you're doing now is continually brining it up!

[GordonS]

13 minutes ago, GordonS said:

So they joined the LL without having any idea what licensed ground they'd use, knowing that they'd have to have one. Ashfield obviously isn't licensed so I don't understand why you think that makes a difference.

Yes, I won't mention it again to you. We'd got to the end of the argument. You think I should say to FairWeatherFan "I'm sorry sir, but I swore an omerta to Jerry Macguire so I'm not allowed to answer your post"? And all you're doing now is continually brining it up!

@Jerry Macguire 

[drs]

 BSC took the plunge whilst the so called giants of "Junior" football sat on their hands and worried about "Tuesday nights in Elgin" and other bullshit,Its clear you are not happy with Linlithgow being a senior club.

[FairWeatherFan]

20 minutes ago, GordonS said:

So they joined the LL without having any idea what licensed ground they'd use, knowing that they'd have to have one. Ashfield obviously isn't licensed so I don't understand why you think that makes a difference.

Hrmmm... There's no such thing as a licenced ground. Ashfield and Maryhill are junior clubs that as far as I'm aware have never tried to gain SFA membership.

They joined the Lowland League with a 3 year agreement with Ashfield as I've previously linked to.

The fact that the Lowland League and the SFA accepted BSC Glasgow and saw them licensed, suggests to me both Ashfield and Maryville could get a licence if they fancied it.

[Excalibur]

2 minutes ago, drs said:

 BSC took the plunge whilst the so called giants of "Junior" football sat on their hands and worried about "Tuesday nights in Elgin" and other bullshit,Its clear you are not happy with Linlithgow being a senior club.

They did and should be commended for it.  Too many of the old junior brigade sat on their arses doing nothing except ridicule the LL etc.

Who is laughing now?  Only fools in the East wanted to remain junior.  Will be surprised if Bathgate etc don't move next season.