New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Burnie_man]

Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

Its how these conversations go though and its not as if you didn't play a part in it.

Yes they do wander around a bit, but this is so off topic and probably deserving of a better environment to discuss it in, because it is worthy of discussion. 

That's all, just a wee request/suggestion but the usual suspects wade in and go over the top of the ball and right into the man

[Robert James]

15 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I know that you've lost the plot a wee bit recently, but FFS.   Are you going down your mad conspiracy theory track again that I'm Jason King?  

If you want to talk NCL/Pyramid do you think a thread about new clubs in the EoS is the place to do it? It's a pretty reasonable request, and perhaps the Highland Forum is the best place for that type of discussion as there are people on that forum who can contribute who won't look in on here.

Fair point, as we all wander off topic from time to time.

How about a new topic :  "Is it important and viable to create a northern pyramid, feeding the Highland League  below tier 5 ?"

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Robert James said:

Fair point, as we all wander off topic from time to time.

How about a new topic :  "Is it important and viable to create a northern pyramid, feeding the Highland League  below tier 5 ?"

There's one already on the go in the Highland forum.

[Robert James]

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

There's one already on the go in the Highland forum.

 

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

There's one already on the go in the Highland forum.

No excuses then !!!  Thanks.

[Ginaro]

Getting back to the topic of the thread...

What is the best way to attract those clubs who didn't move to the EOS in the first exodus or before this second season? Will a gradual movement of club continue, or is it likely to dry up this time and eventually lead to a full merger? Because I don't think it does clubs in the EOS First Division and East Region South divisions any favours to be split 24 v 20 (and into 12/10 team leagues) when they are mostly at a similar level and should be all together.

It might help if everyone knew the aim was for the EOS to become the three-tier league setup (16-16-14+14?) used previously in the Juniors, as surely the it's something most would want?

With a merger you could take 5 teams from each First Division conference and the East Superleague South, to make a 16-team tier 7 league*. Below that, create north/south regional divisions at tier 8. I don't think there can be complaints as EOS teams must know by now that conferences can't continue forever. The top 5 Junior teams would mostly be ex-second tier so they'd fit in well. If allowing them in at tier 7 means getting rid of the divide then so be it.

*depending on promotion/relegation, would need a extra one or two from each conference

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

With a merger you could take 5 teams from each First Division conference and the East Superleague South, to make a 16-team tier 7 league*. Below that, create north/south regional divisions at tier 8. I don't think there can be complaints as EOS teams must know by now that conferences can't continue forever. The top 5 Junior teams would mostly be ex-second tier so they'd fit in well. If allowing them in at tier 7 means getting rid of the divide then so be it.

You're about to run into the Juniors have had their chance so should start at the bottom backlash.

I'm also not sure a merger is on the cards as you run into the question of what standing is given to Bo'ness. Linlithgow and Sauchie junior/community clubs. They're probably happy staying Junior and the EoS may well see them as reserve sides which has the usual negative reaction.

With Kinnoull bolting last minute I think there will be a few more clubs dusting off applications. The likes of Fauldhouse seemed pretty happy remaining Junior for their cetenary. But they might find it some what hollow and see the new adventure of rising up the EoS and licensing.

[LongTimeLurker]

They should keep the tier 7 conference format until the PWG negotiations reach a definitive resolution. There's no obvious need for a merger to happen at tier 6 given who has defected south of the Tay unless the HL:LL boundary gets shifted northward to Montrose (unlikely given the LL rather than the EoS have a say on the format of the Team 42 playoff, but not inconceivable if the SFA offer them some sort of sweetener) at which point clubs like Lochee United and Broughty Athletic would need to be accommodated, if the posture remains that there is only going to be one east feeder. 

[Burnie_man]

The EoS will do what is best for them and their clubs, not continue in a holding pattern waiting for something that may never happen. They have bent over backwards the last two seasons, time to move on.

[Burnie_man]

You're about to run into the Juniors have had their chance so should start at the bottom backlash.
I'm also not sure a merger is on the cards as you run into the question of what standing is given to Bo'ness. Linlithgow and Sauchie junior/community clubs. They're probably happy staying Junior and the EoS may well see them as reserve sides which has the usual negative reaction.
With Kinnoull bolting last minute I think there will be a few more clubs dusting off applications. The likes of Fauldhouse seemed pretty happy remaining Junior for their cetenary. But they might find it some what hollow and see the new adventure of rising up the EoS and licensing.

There will be plenty clubs happy to stay Junior, so let them. The option is there to move to the EoS and senior football if they want it.

[LongTimeLurker]

The SJFA membership has voted collectively to join the pyramid en masse. The SFA has convened PWG meetings to faciliate that.

[Burnie_man]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SJFA membership has voted collectively to join the pyramid en masse. The SFA has convened PWG meetings to faciliate that.

That died on it's hill sometime around April and won't happen, the North have already been excluded from the process. 

There are no further PWG meetings currently scheduled, but these things are usually arranged at a few weeks notice.

The EoS should go ahead and decide it's structure for 2020-2021 with zero consideration to anything that may or may not happen externally at some point in the future.  They may decide to stick to Conferences, they may decide to go to a traditional divisional structure, we'll see.

[Guest]

For me, the eos appear to have always had the end goal of having the Premier division (tier 6), a division below that (tier 7) and divisions below that (either straight league format or conference format).

 

Teams that committed to the pyramid (the sfa driven footballing structure for the country) by moving to the eosfl last season should not be expected to have 2 years of hard work undone because an association, who has historically had no interest in the pyramid or conforming to the sfa led structure, now wishes to join up.

 

In short, if the ersjfa are joining I see no need for them to share tier 6 or 7 at all.

 

The west is and always will be a penalty kick.

 

The North is anyone's guess. Tayside clubs are in between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

[ian44wood]

50 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

For me, the eos appear to have always had the end goal of having the Premier division (tier 6), a division below that (tier 7) and divisions below that (either straight league format or conference format).

Teams that committed to the pyramid (the sfa driven footballing structure for the country) by moving to the eosfl last season should not be expected to have 2 years of hard work undone because an association, who has historically had no interest in the pyramid or conforming to the sfa led structure, now wishes to join up.

In short, if the ersjfa are joining I see no need for them to share tier 6 or 7 at all.

The west is and always will be a penalty kick.

The North us anyone's guess. Tayside clubs are in between a rock and a hard place.

Couldn't have put it any better.

 

[HendersonDelivers]

2 hours ago, G4Mac said:

For me, the eos appear to have always had the end goal of having the Premier division (tier 6), a division below that (tier 7) and divisions below that (either straight league format or conference format).

 

Teams that committed to the pyramid (the sfa driven footballing structure for the country) by moving to the eosfl last season should not be expected to have 2 years of hard work undone because an association, who has historically had no interest in the pyramid or conforming to the sfa led structure, now wishes to join up.

 

In short, if the ersjfa are joining I see no need for them to share tier 6 or 7 at all.

 

The west is and always will be a penalty kick.

 

The North is anyone's guess. Tayside clubs are in between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

class

[LongTimeLurker]

23 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

That died on it's hill sometime around April and won't happen, the North have already been excluded from the process...

If we start talking about the North on here again are you going to take it upon yourself to start another thread in the HL subforum that none of the HL fans seem to see as being relevant to them? The HL's posture post-Stables plan is that they are not going to split into two divisions until they have more than 20 clubs. The HL currently has 17 clubs and there is only one club outside the HL that could currently join due to having entry level licensing and floodlights, so that means that as things stand any club that gets licensed should in theory be able to get in (never been tested in practice obviously). There is no need for promotion and relegation in other words until there are enough clubs available for it to even be an issue, so it's quite possible that the North meetings proceeded no further because as things stand there is nothing obvious for them to talk about.  They'll tag along after it all gets sorted south of the Tay, basically.

18 hours ago, G4Mac said:

...In short, if the ersjfa are joining I see no need for them to share tier 6 or 7 at all...

It's the SJFA that decided to join the pyramid at their 2018 AGM rather than the three regions and it's the SJFA officeholders that are doing the negotiating. The pyramid related discipline changes have been implemented for this season on a trial basis to see how it goes so that process hasn't all ground to a halt as far as the SFA is concerned. It remains to be seen if the SFA are going to take the posture that one of the three SJFA regions doesn't need to be at tier six. Last season they were siding with the SJFA on that in PWG meetings.

Edited August 30, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If we start talking about the North on here again are you going to take it upon yourself to start another thread in the HL subforum that none of the HL fans seem to see as being relevant to them? The HL's posture post-Stables plan is that they are not going to split into two divisions until they have more than 20 clubs. The HL currently has 17 clubs and there is only one club outside the HL that could currently join due to having entry level licensing and floodlights, so that means that as things stand any club that gets licensed should in theory be able to get in (never been tested in practice obviously). There is no need for promotion and relegation in other words until there are enough clubs available for it to even be an issue, so it's quite possible that the North meetings proceeded no further because as things stand there is nothing obvious for them to talk about.  

It's the SJFA that decided to join the pyramid at their 2018 AGM rather than the three regions and its the SJFA officeholders that are doing the negotiating. The pyramid related discipline changes have been implemented for this season on a trial basis to see how it goes so that process hasn't all ground to a halt as far as the SFA is concerned. It remains to be seen if the SFA are going to take the posture that one of the three regions doesn't need to be at tier six. Last season they were siding with the SJFA on that in PWG meetings.

The North are relevant in the context of what you claimed ie the SJFA are mandated to enter "en-masse" when clearly that is no longer the case as the North have been forgotten about and set aside, so everything following that is dead as a dodo on that point alone before you even get to the fact that the ERJFA will not be entering the Pyramid as a competitor league at tier 6.

Where is goes from here remains to be seen, but if they keep trying the same approach - all in or nobody in - then they'll keep getting the same answer.

So to keep this relevant to this thread, the only new clubs in the EoS next season as it stands, will be those east Juniors who want to switch, or new clubs entirely. The EoS should plan accordingly for future seasons on that basis.  G4Mac's summary was spot on.

 

 

[Robert James]

18 hours ago, G4Mac said:

For me, the eos appear to have always had the end goal of having the Premier division (tier 6), a division below that (tier 7) and divisions below that (either straight league format or conference format).

 

Teams that committed to the pyramid (the sfa driven footballing structure for the country) by moving to the eosfl last season should not be expected to have 2 years of hard work undone because an association, who has historically had no interest in the pyramid or conforming to the sfa led structure, now wishes to join up.

 

In short, if the ersjfa are joining I see no need for them to share tier 6 or 7 at all.

 

The west is and always will be a penalty kick.

 

The North is anyone's guess. Tayside clubs are in between a rock and a hard place.

 

 

Why doesn't the the PWG promote a merger of the North Region and East Region (north of Tay) clubs, with the top clubs from each region, forming a  premier division, entering the pyramid at Tier 6 next season. The ERJFA has already split north and south, so this is surely a natural way ahead ?   Below the new premier ('superleague') division, the remaining junior club divisions would be regional divisions, thereby keeping costs to a minimum.

Travelling between Aberdeen and Dundee is significantly better than it used to be, and Montrose Roselea has successfully moved to the NRJFA..

This merger would also make it easier to resolve the EoS and ERJFA problem.     

[LongTimeLurker]

19 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Why doesn't the the PWG promote a merger of the North Region and East Region (north of Tay) clubs, ...

Last season the SFA and SJFA were pushing the idea that the ERSJFA's superleague would be a tier 6 feeder to the LL and they didn't seem to see the Tay boundary as being a significant issue. If the SFA's posture shifts after they weren't able to get their way last season in part because of this issue, maybe that's something that might be on the agenda if/when the meetings start up again. Time will tell.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Last season the SFA and SJFA were pushing the idea that the ERSJFA's superleague would be a tier 6 feeder to the LL and they didn't seem to see the Tay boundary as being a significant issue. If the SFA's posture shifts after they weren't able to get their way last season in part because of this issue, maybe that's something that might be on the agenda if/when the meetings start up again. Time will tell.

ERSJA Super League no longer exists. So nobody has to worry about it getting in the pyramid anymore. Problem solved.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

ERSJA Super League no longer exists. So nobody has to worry about it getting in the pyramid anymore. Problem solved.

What the ERSJFA have been saying is that they will revert to a 16 team superleague format next season if pyramid entry happens. Things are not quite as clear cut as you are implying.