Thorongil Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, StellarHibee said: Politics is a numbers game. When a party has been in power for so long, they begin to rely more and more on metrics, not only to maintain power but to increase their popularity share. Nicola Sturgeon was trying to be too many things for too many people. She wanted to be on everybodies good side, which is simply impossible. She did not. She had no interest in being on the good side of the many thousands of party members she alienated, shut down, marginalised and abused. she had no interest in the wider yea movement. No interest in due process. no interested in women’s groups. no interest in consultation other than rigged consultation. She is a rat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 20 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: I have spoken to others who said the control freakery started under his watch and was cemented under Sturgeon. I get why there may have needed to be discipline within a political party, especially one that became the governing party, but there's that and there's the control freakery we're now seeing. It certainly did not start under his watch. It was the most united party you would ever see, without the machinations and control freakery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thorongil said: She did not. She had no interest in being on the good side of the many thousands of party members she alienated, shut down, marginalised and abused. she had no interest in the wider yea movement. No interest in due process. no interested in women’s groups. no interest in consultation other than rigged consultation. She is a rat. None of that is true, but you crack on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thorongil said: It certainly did not start under his watch. It was the most united party you would ever see, without the machinations and control freakery. Murrel was appointed in 1999 - I suspect there was always an element of control freakery going on - just not as noticeable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, StellarHibee said: Protest Party > In Government > Establishment Party That's the problem. A party will talk a good game to get into power, but once they're actually in power, their values begin to erode as it turns into a simple numbers game to try and maintain that power for as long as possible. The establishment party will always attract chancers. Folk with no political integrity or honesty....just ambition. Eventually they grift their way to positions of influence.....the Peter Principle then starts to play out. The SNP in recent times has maybe just had a few too many running at their level of incompetence. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses1924 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: The establishment party will always attract chancers. This seems to have been the case with Labour in Scotland in the 90's / early 2000's, it's interesting to look at the SNP and wonder how many MSP's / MP's would have joined Labour in previous decades as being the party which offered a pathway to power 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: the Peter Principle then starts to play out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, moses1924 said: This seems to have been the case with Labour in Scotland in the 90's / early 2000's, it's interesting to look at the SNP and wonder how many MSP's / MP's would have joined Labour in previous decades as being the party which offered a pathway to power I remember the current MP for Edinburgh East when he was Assistant General Secretary of Scottish Labour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 45 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Murrel was appointed in 1999 - I suspect there was always an element of control freakery going on - just not as noticeable. Salmond also told them both that they couldn't hold the positions of Party leader and CEO. Murrell would have to step down. That was just after the Independece Referendum in 2014. They clearly thought they were untouchable and treated the membership with utter contempt. Sturgeon should be shunned for the utter mess she has left the SNP in. Support for Independence is at stake and the drip drip drip of bad news will eventually start to impact support as voters start to question if you would trust the party to run an independent country. Omnishambles doesn't even touch it. There needs to be mass resignations from the NEC. The sooner that happens the party can heal and reset. A reset is inevitable now, even for Captain Continuity. The longer the report takes into the governance of the SNP the more this will be drawn out. That report won't be pleasant reading either, the party is a dysfunctional mess and hasn't been following the constitution for at least the last five years. It's going to make for painful reading and the buck stops at Sturgeon's door. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTee Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Fair comment. But the SNP probably wouldn't run an independent Scotland because they are a bit rubbish. and may not even exist. I reckon it would be Labour for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Salmond also told them both that they couldn't hold the positions of Party leader and CEO. Murrell would have to step down. That was just after the Independece Referendum in 2014. Really? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 40 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Salmond also told them both that they couldn't hold the positions of Party leader and CEO. Murrell would have to step down. Is there evidence of this? As far as I am aware Salmond's issues with Murrell and Sturgeon only got back to 2018. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, StellarHibee said: None of that is true, but you crack on. It is true. I was there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Really? Are you honestly not aware of that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 24 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Is there evidence of this? As far as I am aware Salmond's issues with Murrell and Sturgeon only got back to 2018. It’s a known fact that Salmond gave Sturgeon this advice and that she then pretty much closed the door on him. As soon as she became first minister she then completely froze him out. The clique she built around herself and Murrell then hated Salmond and saw him as a threat. The trouble started with him telling her Murrell should go and when Salmond started planning a comeback crack at Mark McDonald’s seat after she threw him under a combine harvester they began their plot against him. This is common knowledge. it is astonishing watching people still refusing to face the truth regarding Nicola Sturgeon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Just now, Thorongil said: It’s a known fact that Salmond gave Sturgeon this advice There will be some kind of record of it then I presume? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 While I agree that having the party leader and party CEO being a married couple probably is a bad idea how would Salmond be in a position to tell anyone what they could do after he steps down as leader. He'd be in no position to make such demands unless he had already put it into the party rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Thorongil said: It’s a known fact that Salmond gave Sturgeon this advice and that she then pretty much closed the door on him. As soon as she became first minister she then completely froze him out. The clique she built around herself and Murrell then hated Salmond and saw him as a threat. The trouble started with him telling her Murrell should go and when Salmond started planning a comeback crack at Mark McDonald’s seat after she threw him under a combine harvester they began their plot against him. This is common knowledge. it is astonishing watching people still refusing to face the truth regarding Nicola Sturgeon. Common knowledge? So presumably you can back this up with press reports/accounts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: There will be some kind of record of it then I presume? Go and look it up on the internet. Are you pretending you are unaware of this information? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said: Common knowledge? So presumably you can back this up with press reports/accounts? You can go and look it up as well. Edited April 10, 2023 by Thorongil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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