Stranraer FC 2017-18

[Mattmc]

19 minutes ago, CobaltInch said:

Why does a supporter of over 50 years need to go and ask anyone? Should they not inform us in black and white? Even just out of courtesy if not respect for their fans.
We’re a small club, there is no reason for us to be kept in the dark.
And your priorities are backwards, how does losing our captain so that another player can play where he wants a good thing? Honestly, are you mr Martin from the supporters page?

Yeah the chairman should come over to your Stair Park throne and feed you all the information while he's shinning your 50 years of support badge. The vice chairman will top up your goblet of Bovril and bring fresh pies.

I don't like the situation we are in the same as all our supporters but, we need to be reasonable.  There was an opportunity to put questions forward and they were answered. We have a very approachable committee who I'm sure will answer what anyone has to ask.

Understand some of the information was maybe lacking but how much can you really come out and say, some details will probably be tight to protect the club.

Maybe naïve of me to think it but will these guys not be doing all they can to resolve the issue, juggling this with home life and jobs.

[1870ToonBlue]

33 minutes ago, CobaltInch said:

Why does a supporter of over 50 years need to go and ask anyone? Should they not inform us in black and white? Even just out of courtesy if not respect for their fans.
We’re a small club, there is no reason for us to be kept in the dark.
And your priorities are backwards, how does losing our captain so that another player can play where he wants a good thing? Honestly, are you mr Martin from the supporters page?

Nope I am not Mr Martin, Steven Bell wanted to leave so why keep him? My priorities are backwards please do go into more depth?

Imo Steven Bell has been way off the pace all season uninterested and hardly broke sweat bar the last game v  Ayr where I thought he was our best player, Kyle on the other hand has given us 110 every week but was dropped in games in favour of our CAPTAIN when it should have been the other way about.

Yes we are a small club which is trying to remain professional throughout this saga given that we have a semi-pro status in the game. 

[ThePoohBear]

11 minutes ago, Mattmc said:

Yeah the chairman should come over to your Stair Park throne and feed you all the information while he's shinning your 50 years of support badge. The vice chairman will top up your goblet of Bovril and bring fresh pies.

I don't like the situation we are in the same as all our supporters but, we need to be reasonable.  There was an opportunity to put questions forward and they were answered. We have a very approachable committee who I'm sure will answer what anyone has to ask.

Understand some of the information was maybe lacking but how much can you really come out and say, some details will probably be tight to protect the club.

Maybe naïve of me to think it but will these guys not be doing all they can to resolve the issue, juggling this with home life and jobs.

Totally agree. 

[beefybake]

7 minutes ago, ThePoohBear said:

I have wrote many times that i agree with that. But you clearly aint getting a statement anytime soon. So instead of some yapping every single day. Pick up the phone and talk to him like many of us have done. If you can take the time out to write on this then you clearly have enough time to phone someone. 

Looks like your deliberately missing the point that is being made.  And dogs yap. People don't.

10 years ago, IIRC, the first that supporters became aware of the clubs money problems was when the then chairman blurted it out in an interview with the BBC.

Now, much the same thing happens, printed in some newspaper. 

[1870ToonBlue]

13 minutes ago, Mattmc said:

Yeah the chairman should come over to your Stair Park throne and feed you all the information while he's shinning your 50 years of support badge. The vice chairman will top up your goblet of Bovril and bring fresh pies.

I don't like the situation we are in the same as all our supporters but, we need to be reasonable.  There was an opportunity to put questions forward and they were answered. We have a very approachable committee who I'm sure will answer what anyone has to ask.

Understand some of the information was maybe lacking but how much can you really come out and say, some details will probably be tight to protect the club.

Maybe naïve of me to think it but will these guys not be doing all they can to resolve the issue, juggling this with home life and jobs.

100% marf. But to some people that is not good enough.

[ThePoohBear]

Just now, beefybake said:

Looks like your deliberately missing the point that is being made.  And dogs yap. People don't.

10 years ago, IIRC, the first that supporters became aware of the clubs money problems was when the then chairman blurted it out in an interview with the BBC.

Now, much the same thing happens, printed in some newspaper. 

Well there is a few dogs on here then. Pick up the phone and speak to people. Not rocket science. 

[CobaltInch]

Do I need to pick up the phone and speak to the ceo of my bank if it goes under too?
Instead of me phoning, instead of a q&a after the horse has bolted and a paper has picked up the story, do your job and respect your fans enough to put us in the picture.

[ThePoohBear]

5 minutes ago, CobaltInch said:

Do I need to pick up the phone and speak to the ceo of my bank if it goes under too?
Instead of me phoning, instead of a q&a after the horse has bolted and a paper has picked up the story, do your job and respect your fans enough to put us in the picture.

Phone. Dont phone. A dont care. If you were that concerned about the club you would of beenin contact straight away like many did. Even if the club did bring a statement out you would yap that it wasnt adressed to you personally. Grow up. 

Mon the blue men

[1870ToonBlue]

Just now, CobaltInch said:

Do I need to pick up the phone and speak to the ceo of my bank if it goes under too?
Instead of me phoning, instead of a q&a after the horse has bolted and a paper has picked up the story, do your job and respect your fans enough to put us in the picture.

Nah cause you wouldn't pick up the phone to a business and demand answers if it was in financial difficulty but because its a SMALL club you demand to know because its a SMALL club everyone should know at least Marf has seen why it hasn't came out from anyone on the committee and that is to PROTECT THE CLUB.

Yes it was leaked to the papers for some reason someone thought that was the right thing to do obviously that someone wasn't thinking about the bigger picture.

 

 

 

[Mattmc]

5 minutes ago, beefybake said:

Looks like your deliberately missing the point that is being made.  And dogs yap. People don't.

10 years ago, IIRC, the first that supporters became aware of the clubs money problems was when the then chairman blurted it out in an interview with the BBC.

Now, much the same thing happens, printed in some newspaper. 

10 years ago things were handled atrociously. At the risk of getting personal we had a chairman who was in way above his head.

This time it's as if the information has been leaked to the press, I don't think the source has come to light yet but could well be a disgruntled player, an agent, a PFA rep.

This is all surmising but say the committee met on a Monday night, identified the problem, plan to go to the players and ask them to take a wage cut, on Tuesday at training, players go to the PFA on Wednesday, in the press by Thursday. In that timeframe there is little opportunity to give a detailed statement to supporters. The club still sitting with hands tied waiting on a reply regarding   players taking wage cuts, while someone has went to the press in a huff.

I can't see it being of any benefit for one our committee to give some daily crap rag a two paragraph story.

[kvz2000]

9 hours ago, Mattmc said:

10 years ago things were handled atrociously. At the risk of getting personal we had a chairman who was in way above his head.

This time it's as if the information has been leaked to the press, I don't think the source has come to light yet but could well be a disgruntled player, an agent, a PFA rep.

This is all surmising but say the committee met on a Monday night, identified the problem, plan to go to the players and ask them to take a wage cut, on Tuesday at training, players go to the PFA on Wednesday, in the press by Thursday. In that timeframe there is little opportunity to give a detailed statement to supporters. The club still sitting with hands tied waiting on a reply regarding   players taking wage cuts, while someone has went to the press in a huff.

I can't see it being of any benefit for one our committee to give some daily crap rag a two paragraph story.

What a few fans seem to be missing is that our financial state did not suddenly appear one night out of the blue ! It probably has been heading in the wrong direction for perhaps a year or more and actions have not been taken soon enough , a club only puts up all its players for sale out of desperation and that’s my grip with the committee , it would appear to have been a heads in the sand approach ( or Scottish cup monies ) instead of taking preventative action a year or so ago . How can anyone praise a committee that have run the club into debt and financial difficulties , unless you have family or friends on the committee and then I can understand your anger at fans ( many many fans ) that are asking for an explanation as to how this happen , I can see that some people would like to keep this quiet as the club tried but that is so wrong in many ways .

[ThePoohBear]

2 hours ago, kvz2000 said:

What a few fans seem to be missing is that our financial state did not suddenly appear one night out of the blue ! It probably has been heading in the wrong direction for perhaps a year or more and actions have not been taken soon enough , a club only puts up all its players for sale out of desperation and that’s my grip with the committee , it would appear to have been a heads in the sand approach ( or Scottish cup monies ) instead of taking preventative action a year or so ago . How can anyone praise a committee that have run the club into debt and financial difficulties , unless you have family or friends on the committee and then I can understand your anger at fans ( many many fans ) that are asking for an explanation as to how this happen , I can see that some people would like to keep this quiet as the club tried but that is so wrong in many ways .

No body is missing the fact about our financial position. Just dont see the point in yapping everyday about a statement from the club. When we should be trying to get people back into stair park then the club can keep having a competitive team. Last week there was money raising ideas getting chucked about left and right and when a said a would be paying £15 instead of £5 agaisnt raith people didnt care cause they had already paid money for that game. "Already paid money" was one response. Are you kidding me?! The club have just lost 6 players cause 2 month ago you paid money just like the rest of us you dont want to pay it again! Then they yap that the club has no money!! A honeslty dont know what people think is going to happen. We get rid of a few players and things are going to go back to where they were before all this came out?! We still need attendendances to go up and money back into the club. If people would rather sit about and yap about not getting a statement from the club then we are doomed. Am sorry but thats how a feel. Yes i agree the club should of hanled this better but thats how things are and as supporters we need to stand up and do our bit even tho some feel the club aint doing the same. But come the agm in the summer some of the commitee might regret that i feel. 

[tuckersloan]

4 hours ago, ThePoohBear said:

Just dont see the point in yapping everyday about a statement from the club. When we should be trying to get people back into stair park then the club can keep having a competitive team.  

I can see both sides of what is being said here. On one hand we have the people who are saying the committee work hard etc etc and emphasising the importance of trying to raise additional funds to help our plight - I don't disagree with any of that and it never achieves a great deal to look back instead of forwards in any walk of life.  On the other hand we have those who feel there are still questions to be answered about what has happened and I can see where they are coming from as well and its obviously important that we learn the lessons this time around.

I don't want to over emphasise this point but its not really a case of getting people "back into stair park" but more a case of starting to manage our expenditure more effectively. Some extra people onto the gate never goes wrong and would help in the current situation but keep mind crowds haven't went down recently and that is not the route cause of the problem. As a club we have received a lot of useful income in recent years from big matches, cup runs and  TV money but its clearly went back out every bit as quickly and our recent expenditure clearly wasn't sustainable once the bonus money stopped coming in. Some of these funds should have been clearly been set aside to safeguard the club's long term future and the money involved was a lot more substantial than what we can hope to raise as a fan group from some of the ideas currently being suggested of Facebook sites etc. Nevertheless the efforts of these fans should be applauded as they clearly have the club's best intentions at heart and that is key in the position we find ourselves in. 

As for whether the fans have the right to know the details or not am honestly not sure and again can see both sides of the argument. What I would say is that Stranraer FC have a small but loyal support. Despite it not being that long ago that we found ourselves in a similar position as a club (albeit things were hopefully a lot worse last time around) I think most fans would like to continue to support the club financially. To maximise our chances of that happening fans need to feel confident that any additional money which  they put in will be put to good use and not spent on ventures which a club of our size clearly can't afford. So forget about what other clubs would do and who is a member or isn't a member and reach out to every single fan in our hour of need because that is what will get their faith back, help everyone move forward and increase our chances of getting more money into the club. I wouldn't for one minute ever question the integrity or work rate of those who are currently on our committee and  do appreciate they will all be hurting as well just now.

One final observation about cost cutting exercises - we have let 5 players go but haven't seen any non-playing staff leave. There seems to be a lot of people in the dug-out and given our current situation would it be possible for 1 or 2 to maybe double up to reduce costs? I realise it takes a lot of people to run a football team these days but can't help but feel we are maybe slightly top heavy in that department and maybe our next step should be letting a coach go rather than a player. 

All of these comments are made as somebody who has supported the club for over 30 years and has the clubs best interests at heart - feel free to disagree. Everyone has different views on the subject (and we all need to respect that) but in the end of the day wants the same things - a Stranraer FC team that is sustainable and as successful as it can be within the parameters it realistically needs to work within. There is a few people on the supposed supporters page who are clearly enjoying seeing the club struggle - might be a good idea just to ignore them.       

[1870ToonBlue]

7 hours ago, kvz2000 said:

What a few fans seem to be missing is that our financial state did not suddenly appear one night out of the blue ! It probably has been heading in the wrong direction for perhaps a year or more and actions have not been taken soon enough , a club only puts up all its players for sale out of desperation and that’s my grip with the committee , it would appear to have been a heads in the sand approach ( or Scottish cup monies ) instead of taking preventative action a year or so ago . How can anyone praise a committee that have run the club into debt and financial difficulties , unless you have family or friends on the committee and then I can understand your anger at fans ( many many fans ) that are asking for an explanation as to how this happen , I can see that some people would like to keep this quiet as the club tried but that is so wrong in many ways .

Is the whole squad up for sale? If I was to tell you that with the players that have left the club now away and the money from Wallace that the club has balanced its books with the money saved would you believe me?  If the committee have run the club into debt what about the manager? It was his budget.

Pooh Bear great idea and I seen it was shot down by a few but I will pay the £15 aswell.

[1870ToonBlue]

10 minutes ago, tuckersloan said:

I can see both sides of what is being said here. On one hand we have the people who are saying the committee work hard etc etc and emphasising the importance of trying to raise additional funds to help our plight - I don't disagree with any of that and it never achieves a great deal to look back instead of forwards in any walk of life.  On the other hand we have those who feel there are still questions to be answered about what has happened and I can see where they are coming from as well and its obviously important that we learn the lessons this time around.

I don't want to over emphasise this point but its not really a case of getting people "back into stair park" but more a case of starting to manage our expenditure more effectively. Some extra people onto the gate never goes wrong and would help in the current situation but keep mind crowds haven't went down recently and that is not the route cause of the problem. As a club we have received a lot of useful income in recent years from big matches, cup runs and  TV money but its clearly went back out every bit as quickly and our recent expenditure clearly wasn't sustainable once the bonus money stopped coming in. Some of these funds should have been clearly been set aside to safeguard the club's long term future and the money involved was a lot more substantial than what we can hope to raise as a fan group from some of the ideas currently being suggested of Facebook sites etc. Nevertheless the efforts of these fans should be applauded as they clearly have the club's best intentions at heart and that is key in the position we find ourselves in. 

As for whether the fans have the right to know the details or not am honestly not sure and again can see both sides of the argument. What I would say is that Stranraer FC have a small but loyal support. Despite it not being that long ago that we found ourselves in a similar position as a club (albeit things were hopefully a lot worse last time around) I think most fans would like to continue to support the club financially. To maximise our chances of that happening fans need to feel confident that any additional money which  they put in will be put to good use and not spent on ventures which a club of our size clearly can't afford. So forget about what other clubs would do and who is a member or isn't a member and reach out to every single fan in our hour of need because that is what will get their faith back, help everyone move forward and increase our chances of getting more money into the club. I wouldn't for one minute ever question the integrity or work rate of those who are currently on our committee and  do appreciate they will all be hurting as well just now.

One final observation about cost cutting exercises - we have let 5 players go but haven't seen any non-playing staff leave. There seems to be a lot of people in the dug-out and given our current situation would it be possible for 1 or 2 to maybe double up to reduce costs? I realise it takes a lot of people to run a football team these days but can't help but feel we are maybe slightly top heavy in that department and maybe our next step should be letting a coach go rather than a player. 

All of these comments are made as somebody who has supported the club for over 30 years and has the clubs best interests at heart - feel free to disagree. Everyone has different views on the subject (and we all need to respect that) but in the end of the day wants the same things - a Stranraer FC team that is sustainable and as successful as it can be within the parameters it realistically needs to work within. There is a few people on the supposed supporters page who are clearly enjoying seeing the club struggle - might be a good idea just to ignore them.       

Attendance is a problem tho, December we had 4 away games and 1 home games with 1 re arranged game that that the players had been paid for already so we had from the Brora game 4 weeks without any income and then the Forfar game with 276 people at it then Albion Re arranged with 303 at it then we had another 2 weeks without any income. 

also the backroom staff I  am led to believe took a reduction on there wages and seen Stuart Millar depart his role.

[tuckersloan]

48 minutes ago, 1870ToonBlue said:

Attendance is a problem tho, December we had 4 away games and 1 home games with 1 re arranged game that that the players had been paid for already so we had from the Brora game 4 weeks without any income and then the Forfar game with 276 people at it then Albion Re arranged with 303 at it then we had another 2 weeks without any income. 

That is all SHORT TERM and evens out over the season. Sorry but it comes down to budgeting and not being ridiculously close to margins. Crowds are lower at every club in the run up to Christmas so shouldn't have came as a shock and the fixtures could have been predicted as well. Yes we were unlucky with the cancelled game but that shouldn't suddenly cause this sort of havoc.   

Say we expected 100 more people at the games prior to Xmas. Based on an average of say £10 a head that would leave us about a grand short for both games and still with the knowledge that Ayr Utd New Year game around the corner. Don’t think this is all about a couple of grand but would love to be wrong. But like I said no point looking back - just can’t buy this stuff about it all being triggered by gates prior to Christmas etc. Just doesn’t add up - sorry.  

[1870ToonBlue]

Obviously it is down to budgeting if it wasn't down to budgeting then we wouldn't be in this situation the Chairman said in his Q&A that at the beginning of the season that they started to look at cut backs to bring the club back onto a level playing field as the season has progressed with crowd figure not where they want them to be and having not reached the target they set themselves. The cuts have had to come from the playing staff. So with a projected budget in place for the season and the projected budget not being met cuts have to be made somewhere. So yes they have known about it from the start of the season he stated that so why let it run till the end of the season, act now and save the club from the same route Jim Bark and co took us down.

[tuckersloan]

8 hours ago, 1870ToonBlue said:

the Chairman said in his Q&A that at the beginning of the season that they started to look at cut backs to bring the club back onto a level playing field as the season has progressed with crowd figure not where they want them to be and having not reached the target they set themselves.

act now and save the club

Wonder what target they set themselves with regards to crowds? Looks like it might not have been very realistic when an 18% increase still isn't enough to reach target.

Yes 100% agree about acting NOW to save the club - acting more robustly last summer would have been even better if problems were apparent at that point in time but easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight. So from what you are saying it was PURELY the clubs decision to ACT NOW because reports in the media suggest it was the bank who brought things to a head.  Perhaps that's wrong though and I certainly don't believe everything the media tells me.       

Thank you for attempting to answer the questions I have asked.  

[1870ToonBlue]

6 minutes ago, tuckersloan said:

Wonder what target they set themselves with regards to crowds? Looks like it might not have been very realistic when an 18% increase still isn't enough to reach target.

Yes 100% agree about acting NOW to save the club - acting more robustly last summer would have been even better if problems were apparent at that point in time but easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight. So from what you are saying it was PURELY the clubs decision to ACT NOW because reports in the media suggest it was the bank who brought things to a head.  Perhaps that's wrong though and I certainly don't believe everything the media tells me.       

Right will say no more and simply focus on supporting the club. Thank you for attempting to answer the questions I have asked.  

Modern society everyone believes what they read but the club has never issued a statement about it so it would just be the media going on what the thought was happening..

 

So everyone

Ask not what the club can do for you, ask what you can do for the club!!

[ThePoohBear]

Agree with what everyone is saying. Totally agree that every one has an opionon. Never ever said they dont. Just feel that some people slagging off the club when its a easy fix is not what anyone needs the now. 

If you honestly think that attendances is not a priority then a honestly worry for the club. How a club can survive on the average attendance that we are getting and still attract the high quality of player that we have been used to for the past 5-6 years. Am more worried about that than whats happneded lately that people dont feel the need to get people back to stair park. 

Next season the league could be if we stay up (if ayr and raith go up and peterhead and montrose come up with forfar getting relegated) Stranraer peterhead montrose Arbroath Airdrie east fife albion rovers alloa brechin falkirk. Tell me where our big attendaces will be? Falkirk maybe if they go well. 

Home attendance needs to dramatically increase or we could be missing out on top players as the budget will not be there.