thelocalcat Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Just now, Sergeant Wilson said: Don't talk shite, you work for whoever pays your commission and both sides hate you. I hope this helps. Everyone at my network is a shareholder so 'whoever pays your commission' = me. Some clients love me, some don't, just the same as every human interaction. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernJambo Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Everyone at my network is a shareholder I can't mind the exact name of the thread for the work speak (corporate language you probably call it) but the above pish should be in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelocalcat Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, NorthernJambo said: I can't mind the exact name of the thread for the work speak (corporate language you probably call it) but the above pish should be in it. Network and shareholder are both very simple English words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 1 minute ago, thelocalcat said: Network Work and shareholder Client are both very simple English words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 45 minutes ago, Adam101 said: I'm not yet 20 but have worked in the kitchen of a small business for 4 and a half years and if I'm being honest it's really starting to drag, the guys I work with are starting to really grate with me and I'm probably being paid less than the other guy who runs the kitchen on my days off but I guess he gets more because he has a family and has held his position longer. I would really like an apprenticeship and totally change my working life but I've found little luck despite appearing at least from the feedback I've had to please the interview panels. Are these gripes and grievances normal for being in the same place of work so long I'm sure some guys on here will have a vast amount more experience than me and would be interested to hear how you guys either enjoy a settled work life or need new challenges every so often It could be worse, dude. You could be a mortgage salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Maybe he means stakeholder. I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernJambo Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Network and shareholder are both very simple English words. I just said they were more akin to corporate language, which I think they are, not complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Yeah, exactly. I mean, if people only did everything they wanted, everyone would just spend all day sitting on the carpet, watching the poker channel, wanking and eating those expensive German biscuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Seriously though, a post I was going to make in here but didn't owing to tiredness from work has been pre-empted by Dee Man who seems to sum up my reaction to paranoid android and others in the thread. I would also say to @paranoid android, your conversation with the guy who came away insistent that "young people don't want to work," I feel as if you did as poor a job explaining yourself to him as you have here. There's a difference between not wanting to work and not being willing to work. Differentiating between the two brings me to my next point. The last two times I met Granda Sanchez' brother before he died (which were over a period of several years) when he talked to me the first thing he asked was what I worked as. When he died the guy talking at his funeral listed off his various jobs, ranging from shipyard apprentice to painter to bus driver and others. I barely knew the guy and I'm not going to try and define his life based on these fleeting glimpses but if he came from a generation which defined itself by work and productivity then I don't think it's something to be ridiculed or dismissed in the way it's been in this thread. He worked, he raised a family, he provided for them. That seems as virtuous and worthwhile as the undefined non-work activities which 'everyone' seems to want to do. The points about mechanisation and its effect on future availability of jobs is interesting. Much fuss has been made in America by Trump's proud boasts that he's saving jobs in the coal industry. This amounts to about 50,000 at most, while employment went down by ~250k over the first three months of his presidency. While retail jobs plummet for various reasons. Yet he (and I know he's an idiot) is focusing on a tiny proportion of the workforce who're in a dying field. But the field itself and the people in it are demanding help, demanding jobs brought back to the area which hasn't adapted in any way since the decline of their industry. This isn't going to get any better in the developed world any time soon, given increasing population numbers globally and the presumable declining amounts of jobs requiring humans. What's going to happen then? If you want to adjust a population to having smaller workloads and work hours because technology is developing to allow it, you'll need to drastically lower the population to compensate, because there's going to be a lot more unemployed people reliant on the state then there are now. If you want to suggest basic income as a solution, I don't see how it will work with a fluctuating population total. Obviously I'm focusing on the currently developed world here, f**k knows how Africa, India and China are going to manage all of this. With that sort of in mind I find it interesting that in this thread there's very few people talking about what sort of 'work' they actually do. Someone who is a nurse will have a different mindset approaching their work and career than someone driving forklift trucks, to use two of the examples given. Their motivations for doing what they do are different and their ability to tolerate it will differ as a result. I'm not going to condescend to anyone about the value of whatever work they do, the basic principle behind employment has been explained by enough people. Either way, there's a difference between those examples, there's a difference between manual labour jobs and managerial ones, all of that. To suggest with all of this in mind that a vast majority of people would happily never work again no questions asked, I doubt it. And as I said when I opened, I don't see where the shame is in enjoying work and wanting to work. A sense of productivity and of achieving something is a good thing in life. Being paid for it and maintaining your life through it, I don't see why people shouldn't take pride in that. In part inspired by a conversation I had in my own work today and based on my own experience there over the past two years, I agree with the notion that if you have work to do there's no point in half-arsing it. When I go to work I put a shift in and so does everyone else there. That's my only experience of the workplace and I've no idea what it's like elsewhere, but I still have my own expectations of myself. I've went between working fuckloads and working the bare minimum and I'm fine with both - I suppose I need to sort out my own non-work time, but that's another conversation. Part of my lower workload is down to the various levels of management and bureaucracy that have been criticised here and the need to have money will probably win out at some point. I suppose my own reply to the thread is seeing the value in working and not working, no matter what I'm actually doing for a job, since I have developed a sense of purpose and effort through it which I didn't have before. I don't think it's bad that employment was the source of this personal improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Honestly can't see where the confusion lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ferrino Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 38 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Seriously though, a post I was going to make in here but didn't owing to tiredness from work has been pre-empted by Dee Man who seems to sum up my reaction to paranoid android and others in the thread. I would also say to @paranoid android, your conversation with the guy who came away insistent that "young people don't want to work," I feel as if you did as poor a job explaining yourself to him as you have here. There's a difference between not wanting to work and not being willing to work. Differentiating between the two brings me to my next point. The last two times I met Granda Sanchez' brother before he died (which were over a period of several years) when he talked to me the first thing he asked was what I worked as. When he died the guy talking at his funeral listed off his various jobs, ranging from shipyard apprentice to painter to bus driver and others. I barely knew the guy and I'm not going to try and define his life based on these fleeting glimpses but if he came from a generation which defined itself by work and productivity then I don't think it's something to be ridiculed or dismissed in the way it's been in this thread. He worked, he raised a family, he provided for them. That seems as virtuous and worthwhile as the undefined non-work activities which 'everyone' seems to want to do. The points about mechanisation and its effect on future availability of jobs is interesting. Much fuss has been made in America by Trump's proud boasts that he's saving jobs in the coal industry. This amounts to about 50,000 at most, while employment went down by ~250k over the first three months of his presidency. While retail jobs plummet for various reasons. Yet he (and I know he's an idiot) is focusing on a tiny proportion of the workforce who're in a dying field. But the field itself and the people in it are demanding help, demanding jobs brought back to the area which hasn't adapted in any way since the decline of their industry. This isn't going to get any better in the developed world any time soon, given increasing population numbers globally and the presumable declining amounts of jobs requiring humans. What's going to happen then? If you want to adjust a population to having smaller workloads and work hours because technology is developing to allow it, you'll need to drastically lower the population to compensate, because there's going to be a lot more unemployed people reliant on the state then there are now. If you want to suggest basic income as a solution, I don't see how it will work with a fluctuating population total. Obviously I'm focusing on the currently developed world here, f**k knows how Africa, India and China are going to manage all of this. With that sort of in mind I find it interesting that in this thread there's very few people talking about what sort of 'work' they actually do. Someone who is a nurse will have a different mindset approaching their work and career than someone driving forklift trucks, to use two of the examples given. Their motivations for doing what they do are different and their ability to tolerate it will differ as a result. I'm not going to condescend to anyone about the value of whatever work they do, the basic principle behind employment has been explained by enough people. Either way, there's a difference between those examples, there's a difference between manual labour jobs and managerial ones, all of that. To suggest with all of this in mind that a vast majority of people would happily never work again no questions asked, I doubt it. And as I said when I opened, I don't see where the shame is in enjoying work and wanting to work. A sense of productivity and of achieving something is a good thing in life. Being paid for it and maintaining your life through it, I don't see why people shouldn't take pride in that. In part inspired by a conversation I had in my own work today and based on my own experience there over the past two years, I agree with the notion that if you have work to do there's no point in half-arsing it. When I go to work I put a shift in and so does everyone else there. That's my only experience of the workplace and I've no idea what it's like elsewhere, but I still have my own expectations of myself. I've went between working fuckloads and working the bare minimum and I'm fine with both - I suppose I need to sort out my own non-work time, but that's another conversation. Part of my lower workload is down to the various levels of management and bureaucracy that have been criticised here and the need to have money will probably win out at some point. I suppose my own reply to the thread is seeing the value in working and not working, no matter what I'm actually doing for a job, since I have developed a sense of purpose and effort through it which I didn't have before. I don't think it's bad that employment was the source of this personal improvement. ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Adam101 said: I'm not yet 20 but have worked in the kitchen of a small business for 4 and a half years and if I'm being honest it's really starting to drag, the guys I work with are starting to really grate with me and I'm probably being paid less than the other guy who runs the kitchen on my days off but I guess he gets more because he has a family and has held his position longer. I would really like an apprenticeship and totally change my working life but I've found little luck despite appearing at least from the feedback I've had to please the interview panels. Are these gripes and grievances normal for being in the same place of work so long I'm sure some guys on here will have a vast amount more experience than me and would be interested to hear how you guys either enjoy a settled work life or need new challenges every so often 'Familiarity breeds contempt' and 'variety is the spice of life' are the two sayings that immediately spring to mind when reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 19:58, paranoid android said: What is the obsession with work in this country? Folk demonise other people for not wanting to work. Spoiler - I don't want to work - I do it because I have to - out of economic necessity - my economic necessity. Politicians and commentators constantly stressing the need for us to 'work hard' - 'hard work'. Well, f**k that - I don't reckon we're here for the sole purpose of working ourselves into an early grave for the benefit of greedy money-makers. Righteous indignation. Thank you. I work to live like yourself but I also enjoy working and the structure it forms in my life. That said I disagree that you shouldn't work hard. If you're happy to take the wages then you should put in the required effort by earning them. We all criticise players down at Tynecastle for not giving 100% when they don't. Unless you're saying the same rules should apply to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 8 hours ago, thelocalcat said: Everyone at my network is a shareholder so 'whoever pays your commission' = me. Some clients love me, some don't, just the same as every human interaction. I hope this helps. Yes it did. It proved I was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Work work work work work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 15 hours ago, Adam101 said: I'm not yet 20 but have worked in the kitchen of a small business for 4 and a half years and if I'm being honest it's really starting to drag, the guys I work with are starting to really grate with me and I'm probably being paid less than the other guy who runs the kitchen on my days off but I guess he gets more because he has a family and has held his position longer. I would really like an apprenticeship and totally change my working life but I've found little luck despite appearing at least from the feedback I've had to please the interview panels. Are these gripes and grievances normal for being in the same place of work so long I'm sure some guys on here will have a vast amount more experience than me and would be interested to hear how you guys either enjoy a settled work life or need new challenges every so often Yeah, I reckon jobs are like governments, the longer you have the same one, the more things you get pised off about until eventually, you're pissed off with so many things, you want a new one even if it turns out to be not that great. Not that I'm basing that on too much experience. I'm starting a new job soon after being at the same place for the past 4 years. I've got my exit interview this afternoon and it's forced me to think a bit about the good and the bad things. There's genuinely been so many good things about my current job but sometimes the few bad things do loom a lot larger. I think it is true that sometimes you just need a bit of a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 13 hours ago, sjc said: I work to live like yourself but I also enjoy working and the structure it forms in my life. That said I disagree that you shouldn't work hard. If you're happy to take the wages then you should put in the required effort by earning them. We all criticise players down at Tynecastle for not giving 100% when they don't. Unless you're saying the same rules should apply to them? I'm not saying people shouldn't work hard, or that they should swing the lead - I worked hard today, for example, and I'll be going well out of my way to help people at work tomorrow. Here's an example of what I'm on about: Boy at work today (nice bloke) was talking about university degrees - he thinks people should only study for degrees that they can use for their careers - I disagree with him, as I believe that education has its own value - he thinks it should be all about it getting you a gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bowen Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 If folk don't want to work then fair play don't work- but don't expect anyone else to fund your lifestyle. As for the virtue in working hard? It's about respect for your colleagues surely? If everyone pullls their weight then it's a better environment for everyone than when slackers are unreliable and don't fulfil their end of the bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I'm not saying people shouldn't work hard, or that they should swing the lead - I worked hard today, for example, and I'll be going well out of my way to help people at work tomorrow. Here's an example of what I'm on about: Boy at work today (nice bloke) was talking about university degrees - he thinks people should only study for degrees that they can use for their careers - I disagree with him, as I believe that education has its own value - he thinks it should be all about it getting you a gig. There's definitely more to education than just work. There's absolutely no question in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 I do like some things that are industrious - I'm quite fond of beavers, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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