djchapsticks Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, ropy said: That makes sense in terms of the appeal but it means ‘Well and Accies have been messed about for something that they have had no involvement in. Perhaps the suspended fine could get reduced and everybody thinks they are winners. If the punishment is changed to a points deduction then Saints cannot win out of it. But you're happy enough to directly benefit from something you had no involvement in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddie06smfc Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, ropy said: It is like having the first goal chalked off incorrectly, it impacts the flow of the game, or the league That has to be a wind-up. Either that or a Motherwell deeply concerned about their teams ability to pick up points in the normal manner. Good decision by the club. The SPFL are hiding behind the Aberdeen & Celtic games being postponed by the Government. Neither of those teams could fulfil their fixtures but the get out of jail free card for the footballing authorities was the Government's intervention. A real shitebag decision and should be appealed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, djchapsticks said: No it wouldn't be harsh at all. Many, myself included, argued that even a points deduction for our f**k up, would have been more justified than forfeit. Should St. Mirren and Killie be punished? Without a doubt. Should they have been deducted points? Possibly Should Motherwell and Hamilton, two clubs who were in the right place at the right time directly benefit from this by gaining those points? Absolutely not. I would agree with that if the awards had not already happened, it is the reversal of it that would be harsh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: But you're happy enough to directly benefit from something you had no involvement in? I didn’t particularly agree with the decision, but it was taken and the points are now on the board. Any different decision now impacts us negatively. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 Just now, ropy said: I would agree with that if the awards had not already happened, it is the reversal of it that would be harsh. Again, no it wouldn't be. Nothing would actually be removed from Motherwell, it's not like Motherwell won the matches 3-0 and are being told to replay them. It would knock it back to an even playing field. Removing points from us would have been a lot fairer than giving them to another team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, buddie06smfc said: That has to be a wind-up. Either that or a Motherwell deeply concerned about their teams ability to pick up points in the normal manner. Good decision by the club. The SPFL are hiding behind the Aberdeen & Celtic games being postponed by the Government. Neither of those teams could fulfil their fixtures but the get out of jail free card for the footballing authorities was the Government's intervention. A real shitebag decision and should be appealed. Not meant to be a wind up just pointing out that the SPFL have made us part of this and now we have a vested interest in the outcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, ropy said: I didn’t particularly agree with the decision, but it was taken and the points are now on the board. Any different decision now impacts us negatively. It really, really doesn't. The points would still be fully up for grabs. Nothing is actually being taken away from Motherwell other than points that they were unjustly given in the first place. Motherwell and Hamilton should never have been a factor when dishing out punishment to St. Mirren and Killie. That they are currently points on the board is neither here nor there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, djchapsticks said: Again, no it wouldn't be. Nothing would actually be removed from Motherwell, it's not like Motherwell won the matches 3-0 and are being told to replay them. It would knock it back to an even playing field. Removing points from us would have been a lot fairer than giving them to another team. Removing points is a greater punishment though. in any normal game you can gain between 0 and 3 points. in this one your potential is between -3 and 0. The impact may be neutral to you but it cannot be positive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: It really, really doesn't. The points would still be fully up for grabs. Nothing is actually being taken away from Motherwell other than points that they were unjustly given in the first place. Motherwell and Hamilton should never have been a factor when dishing out punishment to St. Mirren and Killie. That they are currently points on the board is neither here nor there. I think that is why my point was that the points should not have been awarded (held in suspension) until the process was over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, ropy said: Removing points is a greater punishment though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, ropy said: Removing points is a greater punishment though. in any normal game you can gain between 0 and 3 points. in this one your potential is between -3 and 0. The impact may be neutral to you but it cannot be positive. Of no consequence. I'm thinking of other teams in the league. We fucked up and we were punished. Hamilton and Motherwell benefitting this though, has a negative impact on all other clubs in the league. Imagine Accies survive by 2 goals from County or Livi....clubs who were truly not involved. How is that fair? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ric said: I think so (I mean the potential points deduction for St Mirren) Edited December 9, 2020 by ropy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4mmy31 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, ropy said: Removing points is a greater punishment though. in any normal game you can gain between 0 and 3 points. in this one your potential is between -3 and 0. The impact may be neutral to you but it cannot be positive. Your posts smack of desperation for the points..... If the punishment for being transparent though the disaplinary process is deemed to be excessive then Motherwell may have a case against the SPFL, thou on what grounds I'm unsure, It's not Saints or Killie fault you were awarded 2 x 3-0 wins. I'm positive Motherwell would fight this tooth n nail if the shoe was on the other foot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, C4mmy31 said: Your posts smack of desperation for the points..... If the punishment for being transparent though the disaplinary process is deemed to be excessive then Motherwell may have a case against the SPFL, thou on what grounds I'm unsure, It's not Saints or Killie fault you were awarded 2 x 3-0 wins. I'm positive Motherwell would fight this tooth n nail if the shoe was on the other foot. I maybe wasn’t clear in the last couple of posts, I was talking about removing points from St Mirren, not Motherwell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Just now, ropy said: I think so Heh, I mean I admire your spirit but I'm not sure how you can justify not being given 3 points for not playing a game on a certain date is a punishment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Just now, Ric said: Heh, I mean I admire your spirit but I'm not sure how you can justify not being given 3 points for not playing a game on a certain date is a punishment. I have edited that post, I was talking about the points deduction for St Mirren if it were to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monthelie' Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Probably get the matches played, then lose 4 nil in both. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry Saint Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Is the implication here - re the 'flow' of the league - that Motherwell only got horsed at home by Hibs because they'd already picked up six points that week so they had their slippers on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, ropy said: I have edited that post, I was talking about the points deduction for St Mirren if it were to happen. Oh, listen, if we are to get punished then it's clear the points going to Motherwell and Hamilton rather than us being deducted them certainly benefits us more - albeit not hugely. A deduction is a positive for all the teams around us; Hamilton, Livingston, County and St Johnstone and would open up a gap at the bottom. Thing is, while I would 'prefer' the games being forfeited, if you look at it in context of the whole league the deduction and/or fine seems the more sensible option with the games rescheduled for a later date. 5 minutes ago, monthelie' said: Probably get the matches played, then lose 4 nil in both. That's the spirit! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said: Is the implication here - re the 'flow' of the league - that Motherwell only got horsed at home by Hibs because they'd already picked up six points that week so they had their slippers on? This looks like a good argument to use in mitigation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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