Linlithgow Rose 2017-18

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Sadly opinions like this are being informed by vociferous nay sayers.

Most of our members don't have all the information that we have. So are trusting of what p*sh they get fed.

This is far from a done deal.
 

Has there been any sort of assurance that an application has been sent to the EoS because of the 31st May deadline?

[superbigal]

Lost 3-1.

Season ticket holder at game saying he is against going to EOS as thinks will be an East/West superleague - unbelievable idiots like this have a vote on future of club.

This is the official propaganda.
Unfortunately do not see through it at my local team.
Hopefully your gullible fossils can now smell the paint.

[GordonS]

Has there been any sort of assurance that an application has been sent to the EoS because of the 31st May deadline?

This is now my big fear.

But I find it hard to square the actions of a committee that has significantly improved the ground in recent years, including high quality floodlights that are totally unnecessary for Juniors, with one that would be so self-defeating. I can't believe they'd vote against when Bo'ness voted nearly unanimously for.

It's clearly too late to save the Juniors in the East. The party is over, and no-one wants to be the guy that's still asleep on the sofa the next day.

[findla80]

Let’s be honest here it wouldn’t be a surprise if we stay! Especially when some think we are going west![emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[FuzzyBear]

1 hour ago, findla80 said:

Let’s be honest here it wouldn’t be a surprise if we stay! Especially when some think we are going west!

I was also told last night that one committee member is happily telling folk  that rather than join the EOS we can start our own league with the likes of Bathgate and Whitburn and help get them back to past glories. The worrying thing is some believe it.

It is by no means a given that we will vote to leave.

[GlamourBaws]

1 hour ago, findla80 said:

Let’s be honest here it wouldn’t be a surprise if we stay! Especially when some think we are going west!

The west teams dont like travelling outside Ayrshire. The Tayside teams dont like travelling outside of their area. Why on earth would either agree to a league which involved lots of what they dont want? More reasons for tayside teams to change tact, given their lack of choice, but why would the west teams vote for something which will relegate a fair proportion of them unfairly, and not improve the product? You'd imagine a fair proportion of those teams joining this fictional league, would be relegated over a few years, so the west superleague is restored in any case. 

But if Davie Roy tells people there "will be a west league" then some folk will believe it - all the way to the death of the club. 

The club has heavily invested into building one of the best footballing facilities in the country at this level - I cant think of many I have been to that come close. - but are in real danger of allowing it all to go to nothing over the next 5 years (if not sooner). 

[GlamourBaws]

1 minute ago, FuzzyBear said:

I was also told last night that one committee member is happily telling folk  that rather than join the EOS we can start our own league with the likes of Bathgate and Whitburn and help get them back to past glories. The worrying thing is some believe it.

It is by no means a given that we will vote to leave.

Which committee member ?  I wonder which of them will "set up a league" ?

What worries me is that someone is staring at Whitburn and Bathgate and, instead of seeing the failures in their recent history which led to their current predicament and noting the parallels to where we are today, they are looking at them as our messiahs. 

The club bemoans falling attendances at every turn, and bemoans that there are much more £3'ers than £6'ers consistently. Will playing Stoneyburn, Bathgate and Whitburn achieve a new long term fan base for the club? Aye right. 

Appreciate that this stuff takes time, and some of the folk on the committee are at full stretch, and that those same people are probably the ones with the vision to engage new audiences. 

McBookie have started complaining publicly about the decimation of the league - theres the league sponsor likely to go. What is the interest for ACL Hire, now part of a multinational vehicle rental company, to sponsor a very local football club playing to audience in the low hundreds, with zero national exposure? Zilch. They'll be off to sponsor someone who gets them bang for their buck. The Junior Cup has no sponsor. The F&L Cup, lauded for being a good one to win financially, will surely be less valuable in monetary and glory terms, with such a reduced list of entrants. 

The manager, who has changed relegation contenders into (nearly / not quite) title contenders... whats the incentive for him to stay? Wont do his reputation any good. Same argument to players.

Junior clubs must pay players minimum wage - the maths on this equates to approx £65 per week minimum. If you can afford this, then players should be on ammy forms I believe, which means they can get picked up by any team on professional terms without any compensation to the club. How do we afford a squad of 18 players on 65 a week minimum, plus 3 coaching staff and a physio (nearly £1500 per week for 40 weeks) when there is negligible attendances which fall every year, no meaningful club sponsor, no league sponsor, no cup sponsors?  

All of these issues are linked. I'm not trying to portray the EoS as a solution to everything, but if there is nothing left in the East Juniors, and the silence from the governing body tells you all you need to know - they don't care one jot! 

The point is, there really isnt a choice any more, and Linlithgow Rose, which used to be regarded as a leader, simply has to tuck it's tail between its legs, and get on with moving in order just to stay relevant. Restoring its place and respect will be a long road after this. 

[FuzzyBear]

Can you stand up on Monday and say that and I think you could guess committee member concerned.

[Auld Heid]

My transition to embracing the Pyramid didn't happen overnight - it took time for that to happen.   Now I can see no other option.

The problem at Linlithgow - there are far to many who live in their own little bubble, unfortunately these people are members voting to shape our destiny.  These people are at stage one of the argument and many are being fed negative information.   Our strongest supporters of moving to the EoS won't be voting as they aren't members - for whatever reason.

The committee at Linlithgow have taken to the 4th of June to  hold a meeting with members.   Engagement up to then was a bland statement in the local paper with a circulation in single digits

I genuinely fear this meeting on Monday.

[Jambo'ness]

29 minutes ago, GlamourBaws said:

Which committee member ?  I wonder which of them will "set up a league" ?

What worries me is that someone is staring at Whitburn and Bathgate and, instead of seeing the failures in their recent history which led to their current predicament and noting the parallels to where we are today, they are looking at them as our messiahs. 

The club bemoans falling attendances at every turn, and bemoans that there are much more £3'ers than £6'ers consistently. Will playing Stoneyburn, Bathgate and Whitburn achieve a new long term fan base for the club? Aye right. 

Appreciate that this stuff takes time, and some of the folk on the committee are at full stretch, and that those same people are probably the ones with the vision to engage new audiences. 

McBookie have started complaining publicly about the decimation of the league - theres the league sponsor likely to go. What is the interest for ACL Hire, now part of a multinational vehicle rental company, to sponsor a very local football club playing to audience in the low hundreds, with zero national exposure? Zilch. They'll be off to sponsor someone who gets them bang for their buck. The Junior Cup has no sponsor. The F&L Cup, lauded for being a good one to win financially, will surely be less valuable in monetary and glory terms, with such a reduced list of entrants. 

The manager, who has changed relegation contenders into (nearly / not quite) title contenders... whats the incentive for him to stay? Wont do his reputation any good. Same argument to players.

Junior clubs must pay players minimum wage - the maths on this equates to approx £65 per week minimum. If you can afford this, then players should be on ammy forms I believe, which means they can get picked up by any team on professional terms without any compensation to the club. How do we afford a squad of 18 players on 65 a week minimum, plus 3 coaching staff and a physio (nearly £1500 per week for 40 weeks) when there is negligible attendances which fall every year, no meaningful club sponsor, no league sponsor, no cup sponsors?  

All of these issues are linked. I'm not trying to portray the EoS as a solution to everything, but if there is nothing left in the East Juniors, and the silence from the governing body tells you all you need to know - they don't care one jot! 

The point is, there really isnt a choice any more, and Linlithgow Rose, which used to be regarded as a leader, simply has to tuck it's tail between its legs, and get on with moving in order just to stay relevant. Restoring its place and respect will be a long road after this. 

Fantastic post.  Not moving now would be the beginning of the end for your club.  However, after all the communications rumoured between our two clubs at committee level, I am certain that the picture painted before your vote will make it a certainty, although no doubt there will be some dissenters.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

My transition to embracing the Pyramid didn't happen overnight - it took time for that to happen.   Now I can see no other option.
The problem at Linlithgow - there are far to many who live in their own little bubble, unfortunately these people are members voting to shape our destiny.  These people are at stage one of the argument and many are being fed negative information.   Our strongest supporters of moving to the EoS won't be voting as they aren't members - for whatever reason.
The committee at Linlithgow have taken to the 4th of June to  hold a meeting with members.   Engagement up to then was a bland statement in the local paper with a circulation in single digits
I genuinely fear this meeting on Monday.

The time to stay local was in 2001 when the Superleague was formed if that was the view but look at Whitburn now.

We moved on and had the most successful decade in our history.

We keep moving on and who knows we may continue that trend.

[Auld Heid]

36 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

The time to stay local was in 2001 when the Superleague was formed if that was the view but look at Whitburn now.

We moved on and had the most successful decade in our history.

We keep moving on and who knows we may continue that trend.

Linlithgow voted against the Superleague concept at an SJFA AGM (Pre 2000) - I was our delegate that day.  

Our objection was fuelled by the views of both members and fan engagement events which we held.   At that time our support/members didn't want to be travelling outside the Lothian's . The other major objection was the belief that as time progressed the regional leagues below  Superleague could be decimated to destruction (Fife had the smallest league - the fear being if none of their teams were relegated then pretty soon the Fife league would have very few teams participating)

I think that should serve as a warning how slow we are to finally accepting change in 2001.  Change which the best Junior Team in our area at that time continued to refuse to accept.  So I think your words are quite profound - when you compare fortunes since 2001.

 

 

 

 

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:

I was also told last night that one committee member is happily telling folk  that rather than join the EOS we can start our own league with the likes of Bathgate and Whitburn and help get them back to past glories. The worrying thing is some believe it.

It is by no means a given that we will vote to leave.

A person would have to be an idiot to buy into this. We've been in a league with Bathgate and Whitburn but they weren't good enough to stay in it, which is kinda the whole point.

What's more likely; our mere presence in this fantasy league, which sits god-knows-where in non-league football, would magically pull these clubs up to our level, or  players, sponsors and supporters would leave and we'd very quickly fall to their level?

[kenny131]

Linlithgow not moving with the rest is absolute mental and cant think of anything that why they would just let everyone of there opponents just slip off into the sunset. That meeting with the SJFA must have been a very profitable meeting that they want to stay in the east on there Todd.  If they have been promised entry into a west league I can't see it happening unless they start from the bottom.

[GordonS]

Almost out of nowhere we've hit an existential crisis. I've always been deeply unenthused about the pyramid and I'm a great fan of the Junior game. I'd have preferred for Kelty and Bonnyrigg to have stayed, and everything to have carried on as before. But the status quo is gone, and now the talk here is that committee members might vote not to flee a sinking ship.

Regardless of your views on the pyramid, the seniors or the Juniors, the ship is going down and not getting on a lifeboat now could be fatal for what the club is.

Is there anyway for non-members to contact the committee or influence the vote on Monday? 

[superbigal]

IF you do move presumably Mr Donaldson MBE JP will do what any decent politician would have to do and resign as your president

 

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:

Can you stand up on Monday and say that and I think you could guess committee member concerned.

Yous are very divided it seems in a similar way at camelon. The committee were slated for just going ahead and making the move. The point I made to someone who is now seeing it' not a bad thing to move is had we sat there and asked the people like whitey and others who are so against it we would be left behind because none of them would have voted for It.  Sometimes you just need to be dragged kicking and screaming forward. Their is a book used for business it' called who moved the cheese and its about two mice who went to same place and got cheese one decided to move on got a bigger bit of cheese and was getting more. Thus pointing if we stay where we are it will just be the same. If we move on it could be something better in the same way super leagues did. If it was up to some people it would still be the district leagues

[kenny131]

5 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Almost out of nowhere we've hit an existential crisis. I've always been deeply unenthused about the pyramid and I'm a great fan of the Junior game. I'd have preferred for Kelty and Bonnyrigg to have stayed, and everything to have carried on as before. But the status quo is gone, and now the talk here is that committee members might vote not to flee a sinking ship.

Regardless of your views on the pyramid, the seniors or the Juniors, the ship is going down and not getting on a lifeboat now could be fatal for what the club is.

Is there anyway for non-members to contact the committee or influence the vote on Monday? 

Is today not the last day to apply to eos ?  Your committee arranging the meeting on the 4th is a proper get it right up you were not moving no matter what the vote is.

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Almost out of nowhere we've hit an existential crisis. I've always been deeply unenthused about the pyramid and I'm a great fan of the Junior game. I'd have preferred for Kelty and Bonnyrigg to have stayed, and everything to have carried on as before. But the status quo is gone, and now the talk here is that committee members might vote not to flee a sinking ship.

Regardless of your views on the pyramid, the seniors or the Juniors, the ship is going down and not getting on a lifeboat now could be fatal for what the club is.

Is there anyway for non-members to contact the committee or influence the vote on Monday? 

Who moved the cheese

[drs]

1 minute ago, kenny131 said:

Is today not the last day to apply to eos ?  Your committee arranging the meeting on the 4th is a proper get it right up you were not moving no matter what the vote is.

I wouldn't be surprised if this weeks Wee Rose committee looks very different from the committee that's left standing on June 5th. Could be some coup at Prestonfield next week.