"The ICT Thread - The Championship Years"

[Stephen Malkmus]

Dodds will probably have a break clause in his contract that means we can sack him for a reduced payoff if he doesn't meet his objectives for the season, which probably include finishing in the playoffs. If we scrape into the playoffs he'll be staying

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

How come we're the only club in the SPFL that can't afford to sack their manager?

If that is the case it will be extensively trod out as an excuse, football is just not a business where the books have to balance above all else, a Board with Balls would see that in our present state we are a shambles and get rid.

The Kilmarnock Board did.

In January we had five games, of the five we had one loss and four draws, 4 points out of a possible 15, if we had at least three wins in January we would be top of the table instead of floundering as we are. 

[TheScarf]

3 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

If that is the case it will be extensively trod out as an excuse, football is just not a business where the books have to balance above all else, a Board with Balls would see that in our present state we are a shambles and get rid.

The Kilmarnock Board did.

In January we had five games, of the five we had one loss and four draws, 4 points out of a possible 15, if we had at least three wins in January we would be top of the table instead of floundering as we are. 

Aye it's a statement our fans use time and time again and it gets on my tits.  Of course the club can afford to come to an agreement with the manager to relieve him of his duties.  We aren't fucking tied to Billy Dodds until June 2023 money-wise.  Scot Gardiner-wise we may be unfortunately.

[D'Jaffo]

How come we're the only club in the SPFL that can't afford to sack their manager?

It’s nonsense drivel put out by fans for some reason. You’ll hardly be breaking the bank for Dodds anyway and the majority of managers in the SPFL will have different break clauses that can be used in the summer.

Unfortunately for you, I’d say you’re stuck with him until then but will likely have a bit of an overhaul when you change manager.

[TheScarf]

25 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

It’s nonsense drivel put out by fans for some reason. You’ll hardly be breaking the bank for Dodds anyway and the majority of managers in the SPFL will have different break clauses that can be used in the summer.

Unfortunately for you, I’d say you’re stuck with him until then but will likely have a bit of an overhaul when you change manager.

Yeah it's a daft line that is patently untrue.  No club would enter into a contract with a manager where there wasn't a 'here's some money, good luck in your future endeavours' clause.

The Caley fans seem to think we would have to pay out his contract in full should we sack him.

[SandyCromarty]

Just had a look on the normally sedate and forgiving CTO and seems that most posters there are like minded in getting rid of Dodds, they have a 3 page thread titled 'Next Manager', worth a look.

We can't all be wrong.

[TheScarf]

1 minute ago, SandyCromarty said:

Just had a look on the normally sedate and forgiving CTO and seems that most posters there are like minded in getting rid of Dodds, they have a 3 page thread titled 'Next Manager', worth a look.

We can't all be wrong.

Aye that site is happy-clapper central, so you know it's bad when the majority on there are calling for him to go.

[SandyCromarty]

20 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Aye that site is happy-clapper central, so you know it's bad when the majority on there are calling for him to go.

More like Happy-Clapper control with the admins where the use of the word Fud is considered blasphemous and you get your name read out in the Kirk on a Sunday.

The founder Robert comes across as a decent fair minded bloke. 

[sophia]

15 hours ago, Roland said:

Dodd's will get this season and next to get promoted.

I'm still confident we will finish in play offs, don't see us winning them, but that will be enough this season.

Dodd's can't be to blame for everything. Player clear out needed in summer, some very bad attitudes round Caley stadium. 

This formation is not what one would expect

10 hours ago, Highland Capital said:

I've been saying for a while now that Dodds' tactics are very 90s and I think increasingly that is true.  4-4-2 with a big man/small man combination and two out and out wingers expected to cross the ball into the box at every opportunity seems more akin to a time when Dodds himself was a player.  Why did we do so well at the start of the season?  I think there's three factors here; first of all we were carried by having a decent squad.  Secondly there's perhaps a factor that due to playing such a dated style, teams weren't used to playing teams in this manner.  And the third is luck.  We beat Arbroath on the opening day 1-0 - but for the last twenty minutes they absolutely battered us.  On another day we would have lost that game.

Losing Gardyne was a blow and yes there have been injuries but that's only a small factor.  The biggest factor seems to be that we have no gameplan whatsoever.  Look at the good ICT managers of the past.  They knew how they wanted to play.  What is the style of the current side?  We don't seem to have one and frequently seem to be falling more and more into a side that just plays aimless long balls.  When we go behind Dodds seems to panic, getting even more direct and throwing on every attacking player at his disposal.  There's been times this season we've gone 2-2-4.  There was one game we ended playing 3-2-5.  On Saturday after Carson was sent off we went to a 2-4-3.  This doesn't seem like the behaviour of a manager who has much foresight as to how to get back into the game when we go behind.  It's often been said that Dodds is a good trainer but you can only get so far with that as a manager in your own right.

Then there's the recruitment.  It just seems to be so haphazard now.  I assume we've signed Pearson to replace Gardyne but what's Chalmers' role in this team?  What's Samuels’ role in this team?  And why on Earth on top of all of those was Joe Hardy signed as well?  We've needed at least one full-back since the start of the season.  Why has this still gone unnoticed by the club?

Some people might say finishing fourth is fine but that only masks the problems.  This club is going backwards big time on and off the field and these next ten games could define us for years to come.  Somehow get promoted and we can start getting back to where we once were.  Carry on as we are and I'm afraid we're doomed to become the next Falkirk or Morton or Clyde and are left to wander the wilderness for years to come.  We need the right man in the job now to steer us through this period and I'm increasingly seeing little to suggest that Dodds is that man.

Excellent deployment of the apostrophe

[Roland]

42 minutes ago, sophia said:

This formation is not what one would expect

Excellent deployment of the apostrophe

Got a problem? You sound like a right laugh!! Haven't you got anything better to do with your time? 

[sophia]

On 21/02/2022 at 21:30, Highland Capital said:

Still amazed we have some fans who have faith in Scot Gardiner.  The man is a charlatan.

Any chance of expanding upon this?

 

[Yorick]

While every team sooner or later blames the manager, were there not issues before Billy Dodds even arrived?

ICT from my memory were hardly playing teams off the park with silky football under Robertson. He seemed to be 'criticism free', few complained about Robertson. Didn't get you promoted either.

What changed? They appeared to be flying under Dodds at start of season. Was certainly a very impressive run, was he not due some credit there? 

Neil McCann was a great temporary appointment, was there no chance of getting him full time? Don't remember what happened at the time. 

If ICT make the play offs, which I think they will, is that not a successful season? Why are they expected to finish above bigger budget teams like Killie/Hearts/Dundee Utd/Dundee?

Is Scot Gardiner doing a good job? Why is Dodds getting all the blame, isn't there more to this than simply swapping the manager out? 

Dodds still a United legend, hope he does succeed and get ICT promoted.

 

[Roland]

4 hours ago, sophia said:

Any chance of expanding upon this?

 

While a new manager may need to happen soon, the problems are far bugger than simply sacking Dodds and getting a new person in. 

Scot Gardiner and others need to go too, compkete backroom overhaul. Club has stopped moving forward, attendances are rapidly falling. Sad to see such apathy regarding ICT.

Yet, still a good chance of reaching play offs, where anything can happen. 

Complete re-structure required, soon!

 

 

[RiG]

5 hours ago, Yorick said:

While every team sooner or later blames the manager, were there not issues before Billy Dodds even arrived?

ICT from my memory were hardly playing teams off the park with silky football under Robertson. He seemed to be 'criticism free', few complained about Robertson. Didn't get you promoted either.

What changed? They appeared to be flying under Dodds at start of season. Was certainly a very impressive run, was he not due some credit there? 

Neil McCann was a great temporary appointment, was there no chance of getting him full time? Don't remember what happened at the time. 

If ICT make the play offs, which I think they will, is that not a successful season? Why are they expected to finish above bigger budget teams like Killie/Hearts/Dundee Utd/Dundee?

Is Scot Gardiner doing a good job? Why is Dodds getting all the blame, isn't there more to this than simply swapping the manager out? 

Dodds still a United legend, hope he does succeed and get ICT promoted.

It would be a stretch to say Robertson had us playing stunning football but it seemed a lot less "route one" than we seem to have become under Dodds. I don't think there is much between them on the face of it in terms of their style. Robbo seemed to make more sensible moves in the transfer market however. As has been mentioned we have needed defenders brought in for some time but these haven't materialised. However that also falls on Robbo as well especially given he is meant to be identifying targets for Dodds to look over.

It's increasingly hard not to look at the start of the season as some kind of fluke with other sides being caught cold. Again, as has already been said, despite our excellent record performances were not that impressive. Whilst solid defensively it wasn't the most exciting football with chances often few and far between. Very 1-0 Arsenal from the Fever Pitch days. Since then performances have been quite simply abysmal for the most part. You could count on one hand the number of good performances from ICT this season. It's not been a very impressive campaign.

McCann was offered the job but turned it down as he wanted to focus on his media work.

No one realistically expected us to finish ahead of some of the teams you have mentioned however the division has been getting weaker and weaker with each passing season and whilst at the start of the season playoffs were seen as a solid target the fact that so many teams around us have been guff and we shot ourselves in the foot time and time again frustrated fans. Now we have had four wins since October IIRC and we have blown our best chance of (possibly) winning the title when the league was at its weakest or at least securing second place for a bit of an advantage in the playoffs.

Gardiner is by all accounts doing a decent job off the pitch with some good money making deals coming in to help the club but he definitely rubbed some supporters up the wrong way with some comments like when he told us that there was nothing that bad about our PPV offering last season following a game against Arbroath (IIRC) where the Pixellot camera followed the bald linesman / Dick Campbell instead of the football. 

[PB1994]

I don’t think the board or Gardiner are major problems. Granted I don’t have a clue what goes on behind the scenes but bar a few horrendous statements I don’t think it’s been that bad. We’ve built a gym, got in data analysis etc and also seem to be working with the young team to try and build an atmosphere at the ground. The sponsorship deal is also supposed to be ridiculously good so there must be something I’m missing.

The only real issue I have with the people at the club would be Robbo. I’ve no idea what he actually does apart from spend the majority of his time down at Tynecastle. If he is helping with player recruitment then it’s been a disaster as pointed out above. I bet we will still be paying him a managers salary as well.

I think it really is as simple as removing Dodds. I know I’ve said it before but it’s reminiscent of the Foran reign were it’s just blatantly obvious that he’s not a football manager. No amount of time or any changes will make any difference. 

[bdu98196]

17 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Yeah it's a daft line that is patently untrue.  No club would enter into a contract with a manager where there wasn't a 'here's some money, good luck in your future endeavours' clause.

The Caley fans seem to think we would have to pay out his contract in full should we sack him.

Unfortunately we live in a world where too many people are naive and follow the media thinking its a reflection of real life. They see the EPL and read that manager x, y or z is sacked and gets paid up in full say 3 years at 100k p/w for only 6 months tenure and think its like that all over, they fail to realise these guys use super agents and are effectively head hunted without ever applying for jobs plus get these clauses (if they actually exist for not just them but the whole team they bring as its known the clubs themselves can afford it and they need that box office name so have to pay it to keep fans onside).

In our case its much more common ground where we have a manager or applicants who NEED a job and a club who realistically can turn down candidates knowing that fans will be forgiving and also accepting whether its Neil McCann or Billy Dodds that comes in for example (its not like we are walking away from Conti to appoint Stephen Glass). Therefore we can have clauses regarding termination and if we dont then the board and legal team are failing all the fans. We know that football is a reactionary business so the notice period of 1 or 2 months like 'normal' jobs does not apply, however set lump sums based on pro-rota contract remaining duration should be expected.

 

[SandyCromarty]

22 hours ago, TDog said:

Why do people not like Scott Gardiner? Seems to have done a decent job getting the club more financially stable. 

That's as maybe but I, like many other fans, am completely unaware what this constitutes regarding making the club more financially stable, a check of the accounts filed at Companies House doesn't reveal any major financial improvement from the previous year.

We get so little information from the club that I would honestly and sincerely like to know where monies have been improved on and the substantial financial changes Scott Gardiner has made, as you seriously imply by your firm post that you are aware of the changes.

[madton]

18 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

If that is the case it will be extensively trod out as an excuse, football is just not a business where the books have to balance above all else, a Board with Balls would see that in our present state we are a shambles and get rid.

The Kilmarnock Board did.

In January we had five games, of the five we had one loss and four draws, 4 points out of a possible 15, if we had at least three wins in January we would be top of the table instead of floundering as we are. 

Every club has an "if" story.

If Morton had sacked Gus a few months earlier, we'd probably be ahead of you but we didnt and we aren't. 

 

[TheScarf]

10 minutes ago, PB1994 said:

I don’t think the board or Gardiner are major problems. Granted I don’t have a clue what goes on behind the scenes but bar a few horrendous statements I don’t think it’s been that bad. We’ve built a gym, got in data analysis etc and also seem to be working with the young team to try and build an atmosphere at the ground. The sponsorship deal is also supposed to be ridiculously good so there must be something I’m missing.

The only real issue I have with the people at the club would be Robbo. I’ve no idea what he actually does apart from spend the majority of his time down at Tynecastle. If he is helping with player recruitment then it’s been a disaster as pointed out above. I bet we will still be paying him a managers salary as well.

I think it really is as simple as removing Dodds. I know I’ve said it before but it’s reminiscent of the Foran reign were it’s just blatantly obvious that he’s not a football manager. No amount of time or any changes will make any difference. 

That's my concern too.  We're paying him a salary and our squad has gotten worse, as have our results, since he was appointed as DOF.  Robbo will always be at the top table of the The Caley 'Hall of Fame' for me.  Along with the likes of Pele Paterson and Dennis Wyness, but at the moment my question is 'So..........what is it you're doing?'

It's all very Falkirk-y at the moment; making up new roles to give your mates a job at the club, which is terrifying.

[TDog]

55 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

That's as maybe but I, like many other fans, am completely unaware what this constitutes regarding making the club more financially stable, a check of the accounts filed at Companies House doesn't reveal any major financial improvement from the previous year.

We get so little information from the club that I would honestly and sincerely like to know where monies have been improved on and the substantial financial changes Scott Gardiner has made, as you seriously imply by your firm post that you are aware of the changes.

Strange response 

I didn’t claim to know anything about the club’s finances. However since Gardiner has come in we have managed to build a gym, employe data analysis, employe a dof and knocked back over six figures for Robbie Deas. All that would suggest the club is in a better place financially. 

 

Granted I forgot about his comments regarding the streaming service but was curious why people on this thread thought he was the problem.