What you will pay - a guide for away fans

[Ira Gaines]

7 minutes ago, Gaz FFC said:

Well with your attitude we will continue as we are wi thousands of empty seats every week in stadiums because clubs are too afraid to try fill them wi initiatives that upset the oh so precious ST brigade.

Here's the problem though. It won't. At least not to any reasonable degree. Because too many people will complain about prices but pay them anyway due to some idiotic loyalty to the club. The more empty seats, the more people will realise that the price getting paid is too steep.

There are, of course, people who see the prices as fine, and that's fair enough. If it's worth it to them then you can't really criticise for that. I'm more concerned with those who'll pay the money and bitch about it. And there's too many of those types out there.

I'm all for initiatives to bring others along btw. That had absolutely nothing to do with my point at all.

[Poet of the Macabre]

If you don't like the prices then campaign to get them changed or stop going to matches. Moaning about it on P&B does absolutely f**k all.

[Gaz FFC]

2 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

If you don't like the prices then campaign to get them changed or stop going to matches. Moaning about it on P&B does absolutely f**k all.

Not sure who you're moaning at here?

I'm not upset at the prices and wish the club would do more to sell the empty 1500 home end seats every week.

With the price increase I worry their will be more empty seats next season 

[Gaz FFC]

Did I miss it or did Utd, St Mirren and Morton announce prices?

[vikingTON]

14 hours ago, roman_bairn said:

 

So that's it then, you have declared victory in the argument....by providing no argument or evidence whatsoever to suggest that what I, many others, and many clubs around the world do to encourage young supporters are wrong?

You ain't worth the time playing...nor is your loyal follower TGIG.....

 

I dismissed your case using fact-based analysis and then provided a direct comparison of a business that similarly 'entertains' adults and their sprogs, but also has the temerity to charge admission for both to consume the product with no negative impact on future consumption. As a leisure centre, swimming pool or pretty much every other venue does as well. You flung a set of meaningless cliches at your screen, raged about it and so... here we are. 

Another humiliating for yourself. 

[Nowhereman]

6 hours ago, Randy Giles said:

Here's the problem though. It won't. At least not to any reasonable degree. Because too many people will complain about prices but pay them anyway due to some idiotic loyalty to the club. The more empty seats, the more people will realise that the price getting paid is too steep.

There are, of course, people who see the prices as fine, and that's fair enough. If it's worth it to them then you can't really criticise for that. I'm more concerned with those who'll pay the money and bitch about it. And there's too many of those types out there.

I'm all for initiatives to bring others along btw. That had absolutely nothing to do with my point at all.

Is that not the definition of a football supporter?

[DA Baracus]

Absolutely none of the prices are 'decent'. They're all a huge rip off.

Which is why I'll continue to always try and get in as a student. I even got in as an under 16 at Alloa in January.

[The Grass Is Greener.]

Gav also pays in as a student yet is the biggest moaner on the site regarding ticket prices.

[vikingTON]

41 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Absolutely none of the prices are 'decent'. They're all a huge rip off.

Which is why I'll continue to always try and get in as a student. I even got in as an under 16 at Alloa in January.

Everybody can get in as a child at Alloa - as the turnstile operators can't actually see who is passing the money through their turnstiles. Unless you're a grizzled, old midget I suppose.

Given their snake chairman's refusal to offer any sort of reduced price entry to Morton fans for a rescheduled game, after the original one was abandoned in the second half a couple of years ago, i for one approve of denying those money-grabbing officials their 'fair' source of income.

[knee jerk reaction]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

I dismissed your case using fact-based analysis and then provided a direct comparison of a business that similarly 'entertains' adults and their sprogs, but also has the temerity to charge admission for both to consume the product with no negative impact on future consumption. As a leisure centre, swimming pool or pretty much every other venue does as well. You flung a set of meaningless cliches at your screen, raged about it and so... here we are. 

Another humiliating for yourself. 

oh dear, way back near the beginning of this thread I said Falkirk charging £20 to get in subsidised free entry for kids to the games, the problem of arguing (wrongly in my opinion) against this is that it simply isn't true!! I was exaggerating for effect to show those pesky Dumbarton fans that Falkirk is far greater value for money and get them to lay off Shadwell for mentioning the slope of their pitch. it would still be £20 if we charged a fiver for kids! letting kids in for nothing is a way that Falkirk are trying so they'll get into the habit of following a team and come back as they get older. more clubs should try it.

as for your "argument" about other entertainment industries, I sure no-one has ever had a "kids go free" promotion or similar. I suggest you e-mail breakfast cereal companies or newspapers to see if they would be interested in such a campaign....  

[vikingTON]

29 minutes ago, knee jerk reaction said:

oh dear, way back near the beginning of this thread I said Falkirk charging £20 to get in subsidised free entry for kids to the games, the problem of arguing (wrongly in my opinion) against this is that it simply isn't true!! I was exaggerating for effect to show those pesky Dumbarton fans that Falkirk is far greater value for money and get them to lay off Shadwell for mentioning the slope of their pitch. it would still be £20 if we charged a fiver for kids!

You're letting them in for nothing because your gate receipts from charging adults a ridiculously high price allow you to write off the lost revenue. The adult spectators are therefore subsidising the policy of free entry for children for no good reason.  

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letting kids in for nothing is a way that Falkirk are trying so they'll get into the habit of following a team and come back as they get older. more clubs should try it.

They probably don't because there's no evidence that this policy is more effective than charging £3-5 a match at achieving that goal. Other clubs charge a smaller price for the adults because they don't have to subsidise free entry for an another paying adult's sprogs. Which is a fairer system for all spectators. 

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as for your "argument" about other entertainment industries, I sure no-one has ever had a "kids go free" promotion or similar. I suggest you e-mail breakfast cereal companies or newspapers to see if they would be interested in such a campaign....  

If you consider 'newspapers and breakfast cereals' to be in the 'entertainment or leisure' sectors of the economy then you've got a pretty tragic life tbh. The businesses that football clubs are directly competing with on a Saturday afternoon are the likes of cinemas, leisure centres, swimming pools, theme parks, museums etc. The vast majority of which charge children a concession price to use or enjoy their facilities, because that's best practice in the sector. If Falkirk's brains trust advised these companies to increase their standard admission prices in order to let kids in for nothing then they'd be laughed out of boardrooms up and down the country. 

[knee jerk reaction]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

You're letting them in for nothing because your gate receipts from charging adults a ridiculously high price allow you to write off the lost revenue. The adult spectators are therefore subsidising the policy of free entry for children for no good reason.  

They probably don't because there's no evidence that this policy is more effective than charging £3-5 a match at achieving that goal. Other clubs charge a smaller price for the adults because they don't have to subsidise free entry for an another paying adult's sprogs. Which is a fairer system for all spectators. 

If you consider 'newspapers and breakfast cereals' to be in the 'entertainment or leisure' sectors of the economy then you've got a pretty tragic life tbh. The businesses that football clubs are directly competing with on a Saturday afternoon are the likes of cinemas, leisure centres, swimming pools, theme parks, museums etc. The vast majority of which charge children a concession price to use or enjoy their facilities, because that's best practice in the sector. If Falkirk's brains trust advised these companies to increase their standard admission prices in order to let kids in for nothing then they'd be laughed out of boardrooms up and down the country. 

we are not charging "ridiculously high prices, we are in line with virtually every team in the league. until there has been a long term study into the benefits or otherwise of free entry then I can't say for certain it works just like you can't be sure it doesn't, although personally going along at a young age got myself and others hooked on going to the games. as for your last "point" I really don't know if you are being incredibly stupid or deliberately obtuse, obviously I wasn't saying cereals are part of the entertainment industry but theme parks, and cinemas virtually constantly run high profile "kids go free" or 2 for 1 promotions in newspapers and on cereal packets. other entertainment industries regularly run promotions offering free entry, I would've have though such nationwide campaigns would have reached Greenock but I may have been mistaken. I look forward to your campaign for non cereal breakfast eaters to stop subsidising cereal eaters entry into theme parks  

[Senor Bairn]

It's a prank bro

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, knee jerk reaction said:

we are not charging "ridiculously high prices, we are in line with virtually every team in the league.

Erm no you're not: you're currently one of only three teams to charge £20 or more for admission to a second-tier football match. All of whose fans at one stage or another have peddled the line that they are somehow 'in line' with the rest of the league. The prices on page 1 of this thread demonstrate otherwise though. 

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until there has been a long term study into the benefits or otherwise of free entry then I can't say for certain it works just like you can't be sure it doesn't

 

There is no evidence to show that it does; while established practice in Scottish football and across all other businesses in the same sector does not support the need to subsidise free entry for children to ensure regular custom. So I can be highly confident that it is not a successful policy then and certainly not a fair one for the majority of paying customers.

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although personally going along at a young age got myself and others hooked on going to the games.

Whereas literally no children would attend football matches if they or their parents were charged the staggering sum of £3 or £5 to do. 

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obviously I wasn't saying cereals are part of the entertainment industry but theme parks, and cinemas virtually constantly run high profile "kids go free" or 2 for 1 promotions in newspapers and on cereal packets. other entertainment industries regularly run promotions offering free entry, I would've have though such nationwide campaigns would have reached Greenock but I may have been mistaken.

These are not "virtually constant" at all: they are promotions run on a short-term basis. Try using your beloved cereal packets to swan up and gain free entry for your sprogs every Saturday afternoon and you will find yourself short of options in no time at all. 

[knee jerk reaction]

17 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm no you're not: you're currently one of only three teams to charge £20 or more for admission to a second-tier football match. All of whose fans at one stage or another have peddled the line that they are somehow 'in line' with the rest of the league. The prices on page 1 of this thread demonstrate otherwise though. 

There is no evidence to show that it does; while established practice in Scottish football and across all other businesses in the same sector does not support the need to subsidise free entry for children to ensure regular custom. So I can be highly confident that it is not a successful policy then and certainly not a fair one for the majority of paying customers.

Whereas literally no children would attend football matches if they or their parents were charged the staggering sum of £3 or £5 to do. 

These are not "virtually constant" at all: they are promotions run on a short-term basis. Try using your beloved cereal packets to swan up and gain free entry for your sprogs every Saturday afternoon and you will find yourself short of options in no time at all. 

virginton, the ability to cherry pick and state non facts as facts make you an absolute joy to read, you really should go into politics! we charge the same as 3 other teams in a league of 10 teams and where 3 teams haven't announce their prices and other teams will charge extra for big matches!!

anyway I am finished with this thread, now that my unnatural, crime against nature love for my "beloved cereal packets" has been revealed to the public, one day I shall be able to stand up in public and cry "yes, I have had my Weetabix..." but until then...

[bridge of allan bairn]

I thought a local firm sponsored the kids getting in free not subsidised by adult fans?

Anyway it does work my kids have both been getting in for free for a few years now. I wouldn't have taken them both even at a fiver each a game. Of course they are now hooked and this season my oldest will be £195 for her season ticket which we will buy. So falkirk in my case have made £195 this year they otherwise wouldn't have. They'll make another £195 next year when my youngest reaches 12 too. So pretty much £400 per year extra every year they would never have had as is have never taken them when they were very young and less interested. I'm glad my club have done this and think it's one of the many reasons out crowds are holding up

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, knee jerk reaction said:

the ability to cherry pick and state non facts as facts make you an absolute joy to read, you really should go into politics! we charge the same as 3 other teams in a league of 10 teams and where 3 teams haven't announce their prices and other teams will charge extra for big matches!!

So you're not 'in line with virtually every team in the league then'. And almost no team in the division will operate with different category games during the coming season. 

Morton btw have announced their prices - subject to them clearing up the details about a new ticketing system, the standard admission prices are £18 for adults and £5 for children. So that's five out of eight clubs that aren't charging fully £20 or more for a game of second-tier football. Probably because they all have a rational pricing structure tbh. 

[roman_bairn]

These are not "virtually constant" at all: they are promotions run on a short-term basis. Try using your beloved cereal packets to swan up and gain free entry for your sprogs every Saturday afternoon and you will find yourself short of options in no time at all. 

As has been said earlier, like trying to have a rational debate with a drunk woman.[emoji16]

Agree there is no solid evidence but your blasé approach to this is a little silly.

I am not going to make huge claims based on little viable evidence other than common sense, but can I ask one question VT.....

Why you think Morton's general attendances appear to be on the decline whist Falkirk's are on the rise despite the lower adult prices at Morton?

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

 

As has been said earlier, like trying to have a rational debate with a drunk woman.

 

Not sure that dropping in some casual misogyny is going to help your plight here tbh. 

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I am not going to make huge claims based on little viable evidence other than common sense, but can I ask one question VT.....

The 'common sense' approach in this instance is the one followed by the vast majority of football clubs, as well as every other comparable business in the entertainment and leisure sector. Which is to charge entry to both adults and children to use or witness their product. 

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Why you think Morton's general attendances appear to be on the decline whist Falkirk's are on the rise despite the lower adult prices at Morton?

Morton's attendances aren't declining. Here are the figures and league positions for the last five seasons in the second tier of Scottish football:

2016/17: 2362 (4th)

2015/16: 2731 (5th and accounted for by Sevco)

2013/14: 1686 (10th)

2012/13: 2137 (2nd)

2011/12: 1826 (8th)

Morton's attendance figure in the past season was higher than it has been in all but five seasons spent in the second tier of Scottish football: one of which was 2015/16; one of which was when they won the second tier in the late 1970s and the other three were in the Lindberg, Rajanmaki etc. period in the mid 1990s. It is higher than fully 19 campaigns at this level. 

http://www.fitbastats.com/morton/club_records_league_attendance.php

Tl;dr version - you've started from a false claim and so your line of argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 

 

[roman_bairn]

Point taken that they are generally around 2500 and have been for many years.

I note your point re the Sevco effect but Falkirk attendances last season increased despite their lack of presence and are currently around twice Morton's.

Don't think your evidence suggests that Morton's approach to charging is helping matters though whilst the Bairns approach has some unsubstantiated evidence that it's having a positive effect on crowds.