Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

There's nothing further to add. You keep making a fool of yourself and keep digging that hole if you wish, fill your boots. It's telling you need to do that under a different ID.

 

OK you are not able to give a general description of a team in the relegation zone for a drop into the third level of the east juniors. You really have painted yourself into a tiny corner with your hissy fit about Dalkeith being described as mediocre.

"Under a different id! What on earth are you talking about?  For a while you were telling me I was Isobel Goudie. LOL! Not that it matters on jot about ids.  If I were Isobel Goudie would it matter?  Opinion are opinions.  Just try not to personalise things. Try to discuss  issues rather than charging in hamfistedly and attacking individuals who happen to disagree with you.  Deal with the message, not the messenger. If you did you might have a little more credibility.

[AlanCamelonfan]

10 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I mean what I said. "Points per game".

Yeh but nothen every team can win their remaining games. Your posts sir are mediocre

[Khufu2]

9 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Tier 8 hopefully, thats where they deserve to be (except Dundonald)

Yes, there we have it. No interest in a working pyramid. They just want to be vindictive even if it makes the east section of the pyramid a total laughing stock.

 

[Hillonearth]

7 minutes ago, HTG said:

The main point for me is that both of these leagues are sub-standard next season. That's because there is a finite amount of quality floating about in the east. The EoS is largely strengthened by the arrival of the junior teams. The East Juniors are largely weakened. Neither is optimal. But ... 

The junior teams opting to move have pretty much guaranteed their place in the pyramid  (where we're all heading anyway) whether at tier 6 or 7. The junior teams opting to remain have nothing guaranteed. Absolutely nothing. 

If Linlithgow and Bo'ness in particular  have called this wrong they'll be leagues and leagues below teams they were broadly on a par with over the last few years. Their support may be "traditionalists" (they may not be actually - who knows) but they'll be unforgiving towards those who have steered the clubs into a heap of trouble.  So the SJFA better produce the good or "the grade" will have all but buried those who chose to stay (from the top end at least).

I'd go as far as to say that if the SJFA don't deliver, I'll probably never watch another football match in Scotland at any level. I'll have been too sickened. So on a personal level, I hope they get their arse in gear and get it sorted. 

I'm not an at-all-costs pyramidista - indeed I was openly critical of the initial setup of the LL which was nobody's idea of the 12 best non-league sides south of the Tay - I am however a pragmatist, and only a fool could fail to see which way the wind's blowing at the moment. Or a foolish club.

We are where we are, and the juniors aren't going to move across any time soon en bloc which would have  been my preference.

It's therefore down to each club to look to their own future. If that means that some traditionally weaker sides steal a march on some of the traditionally stronger ones that's down to the big fish not getting their fingers out of their arses, not the wee guys failing to acknowledge some kind of pecking order.

What are a Dalkeith, Blackburn or Haddington meant to do in this situation - say they'd love to sign up, but not until Lithgy and Bo'ness make up their minds...that could be years from now or maybe even never.

 

[Khufu2]

2 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Yeh but nothen every team can win their remaining games. Your posts sir are mediocre

What on earth are you talking about?

Do you understand what "points per game" actually means?  Points won/divided by games played.  

Hill of Beath 33/24 1.375

Camelon 35/27 1.296

 

 

[Goalie Hamish]

OK you are not able to give a general description of a team in the relegation zone for a drop into the third level of the east juniors. You really have painted yourself into a tiny corner with your hissy fit about Dalkeith being described as mediocre.
"Under a different id! What on earth are you talking about?  For a while you were telling me I was Isobel Goudie. LOL! Not that it matters on jot about ids.  If I were Isobel Goudie would it matter?  Opinion are opinions.  Just try not to personalise things. Try to discuss  issues rather than charging in hamfistedly and attacking individuals who happen to disagree with you.  Deal with the message, not the messenger. If you did you might have a little more credibility.

Whit was i was saying about clowns ffs man gie it a rest Dipplebevvy or Weegieboy or Isa, yer one of the tiresome trio. You can make yer arguments without slagging other clubs.

Hiding behind a different name is the only mediocre pish here ffs

[HTG]

4 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I'm not an at-all-costs pyramidista - indeed I was openly critical of the initial setup of the LL which was nobody's idea of the 12 best non-league sides south of the Tay - I am however a pragmatist, and only a fool could fail to see which way the wind's blowing at the moment. Or a foolish club.

We are where we are, and the juniors aren't going to move across any time soon en bloc which would have  been my preference.

It's therefore down to each club to look to their own future. If that means that some traditionally weaker sides steal a march on some of the traditionally stronger ones that's down to the big fish not getting their fingers out of their arses, not the wee guys failing to acknowledge some kind of pecking order.

What are a Dalkeith, Blackburn or Haddington meant to do in this situation - say they'd love to sign up, but not until Lithgy and Bo'ness make up their minds...that could be years from now or maybe even never.

 

Not their problem. I'm only calling it as it will be for me. 

[tombrown]

2 hours ago, Robert James said:

Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts (amateur/youth) applied and were accepted into the EoS.

At least 2 other amateur clubs enquired, but it was suggested to them that it would be better to delay their formal application this time.  

St bernards amateur football club enquired via a phone call.no other did though.

[Khufu2]

13 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Whit was i was saying about clowns ffs man gie it a rest Dipplebevvy or Weegieboy or Isa, yer one of the tiresome trio. You can make yer arguments without slagging other clubs.

Hiding behind a different name is the only mediocre pish here ffs

Is that you burney_boy?

[Burnie_man]

36 minutes ago, HTG said:

The main point for me is that both of these leagues are sub-standard next season. That's because there is a finite amount of quality floating about in the east. The EoS is largely strengthened by the arrival of the junior teams. The East Juniors are largely weakened. Neither is optimal. But ... 

The junior teams opting to move have pretty much guaranteed their place in the pyramid  (where we're all heading anyway) whether at tier 6 or 7. The junior teams opting to remain have nothing guaranteed. Absolutely nothing. 

If Linlithgow and Bo'ness in particular  have called this wrong they'll be leagues and leagues below teams they were broadly on a par with over the last few years. Their support may be "traditionalists" (they may not be actually - who knows) but they'll be unforgiving towards those who have steered the clubs into a heap of trouble.  So the SJFA better produce the good or "the grade" will have all but buried those who chose to stay (from the top end at least).

I'd go as far as to say that if the SJFA don't deliver, I'll probably never watch another football match in Scotland at any level. I'll have been too sickened. So on a personal level, I hope they get their arse in gear and get it sorted. 

I dont think any of the big clubs remaining Junior are going to be buried. You might have to work your way through a division to get to where you might have expected to be, it's hardly insurmountable and hardly reason to give up on your club or fitba!  That said, the EoS people seem pragmatic enough to realise relative strengths, so you never know what might happen end of next season.

You'll defintely be at least one division below Kelty, and maybe Bonnyrigg and one other though, maybe a mediocre club will make it to the LL as well

 

[Glenconner]

1 hour ago, Hillonearth said:

Well, the thread's called " Junior Football - what is the future?"

Given the fact that around 10% of the current Junior roster have already announced that they're leaving, with more apparently to follow them to the EoS and another chunk no doubt leaving once there's a viable West alternative in place, it's probably worth talking about it

Unless you want to make like the Amish, shun them and never speak their names again...

Amish at a Junior game?

That i'd like to see.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Chat on the EOS forum that Craigroyston have chucked their hat in the ring, also that Dunbar have as well. Kirkcaldy will be in the Superleague at this rate

I'm not sure how this has gone round in a circle. Daleboy(?) said he heard from a Craigroyston player that they'd put in a late application, stating costs being a reason and subsequently used as a way to criticise the EoS/Craigroyston. Amongst this discussion Dunbar were raised as another possible late application due to being the lone Junior in Lothian.

This was then put in the New Clubs in the EoS thread as gossip from the Junior forum and has now come back here as an apparent fact and seemingly a way to have a dig at the Juniors.

Edited May 8, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[AlanCamelonfan]

18 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

What on earth are you talking about?

Do you understand what "points per game" actually means?  Points won/divided by games played.  

Hill of Beath 33/24 1.375

Camelon 35/27 1.296

 

 

Yes but that is a pointless example as teams have all played different amounts Hill on Beath or boness could lose all their games and camelon could win all and go aboveosfl which alters everything you have said. 

 

Why should teams leapfrog teams who have decided to apply it doesn' matter what they do in the old world why can' you get it. Has and LL here teams to wait on everyone else. Shut up you muppet

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, gogsy said:

I think its fair to say my  interest in the possibility of a working pyramid has been going at least twenty years, its fair to say my interest in a working pyramid was there long before I even thought about how my team would actually fit into a pyramid system.  Its fair to say I want to see as many teams as possible in that pyramid system as possible, Its fair to say we have a WORKING PYRAMID SYSTEM at the moment, just that you dont like how it is set up. Its fair to say that I believe that there should be no artificial cut off between teams and that I believe the term junior is an archaic term from the 19th century and has no relevance to todays fotball world.

So your working pyramid would have Penicuik or Linlithgow or Bo'ness two tiers behind Peebles Rovers or mebbe Dalkeith.

I would say your working pyramid isn't fit for purpose.

[Hillonearth]

2 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Amish at a Junior game?

That i'd like to see.

The strikers couldn't hit a barn door, but I bet they could build the f**k out of one.

[Khufu2]

Just now, AlanCamelonfan said:

Yes but that is a pointless example as teams have all played different amounts Hill on Beath or boness could lose all their games and camelon could win all and go aboveosfl which alters everything you have said. 

 

Why should teams leapfrog teams who have decided to apply it doesn' matter what they do in the old world why can' you get it. Has and LL here teams to wait on everyone else. Shut up you muppet

Oh I how I love the quality of discourse here.

[Burnie_man]

21 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I'm not an at-all-costs pyramidista - indeed I was openly critical of the initial setup of the LL which was nobody's idea of the 12 best non-league sides south of the Tay - I am however a pragmatist, and only a fool could fail to see which way the wind's blowing at the moment. Or a foolish club.

We are where we are, and the juniors aren't going to move across any time soon en bloc which would have  been my preference.

It's therefore down to each club to look to their own future. If that means that some traditionally weaker sides steal a march on some of the traditionally stronger ones that's down to the big fish not getting their fingers out of their arses, not the wee guys failing to acknowledge some kind of pecking order.

What are a Dalkeith, Blackburn or Haddington meant to do in this situation - say they'd love to sign up, but not until Lithgy and Bo'ness make up their minds...that could be years from now or maybe even never.

If it wasn't for these mediocre clubs, we might still be sitting here contemplating if the SJFA would ever be interested in joining the Pyramid.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

Except  that we are not talking about per capita crowds attending football matches. We are talking about crowds. It is a nonsense argument to claim that having semi-pros travelling the length and breadth of Scotland to play in front of 600 is more justifiable than full time pros travelling the length and breadth of England  to play in front of 6,000 (though personally I think the fourth tier in England should also be regionalised).

It is justified by the clubs having the necessary resources to fund it with the crowds that they receive.  In the exact same way that a standard crowd of 600 in the Slovak or Croatian second tier doesn't lead to regional leagues being formed all the way up to the top flight. Scottish football can easily sustain four national leagues because it is one of the best supported league per capita in Europe.

You've simply decided that you don't like the idea of four national leagues and flung arguments at a wall in the hope that at least one of them would stick. They haven't and so this thread has been a massive failure for you. 

[drs]

39 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Yes, there we have it. No interest in a working pyramid. They just want to be vindictive even if it makes the east section of the pyramid a total laughing stock.

 

There is a working pyramid - backwards looking clubs have chosen not to join it, you resent those that have joined, The only laughing stock I can see round here is you and your tedious argument about Dalkeith.

[drs]

21 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

So your working pyramid would have Penicuik or Linlithgow or Bo'ness two tiers behind Peebles Rovers or mebbe Dalkeith.

I would say your working pyramid isn't fit for purpose.

You'd only say that if you actually had no understanding of how the working pyramid actually works - if Linlithgow or Bo'ness refuse to join the working pyramid you'd have to be exceptionally blinkered or just a piss poor trolling alias to fail to actually why they would end up below the progressive clubs.

You are making an exceptionally mediocre starting position even worse with your failure to grasp how football works.

Still waiting on those Junior positives for staying, please hurry up before we all move to the senior leagues.

Edited May 8, 2018 by drs