Junior football, what is the future?

[Jambo'ness]

2 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

Sounds like a nice organisation 

A **** sight nicer than TJ's SJFA.

[Auld Heid]

Maybe time for the EoS to have a rethink.

When your opponent is down you go for the kill.

Offer all the remaining East juniors an opportunity to move en bloc.

Tayside teams don't deserve to be penalised because of TJ

[cmontheloknow]

1 minute ago, Auld Heid said:

Maybe time for the EoS to have a rethink.

When your opponent is down you go for the kill.

Offer all the remaining East juniors an opportunity to move en bloc.

Tayside teams don't deserve to be penalised because of TJ

Except that they're not in the LL's catchment area - nothing to do with TJ. North of the tay Bridge is Highland League territory. Those clubs, if coming into the pyramid, would need to form a regional league beneath it and chap at the HFL door.

 

[Truthteller]

3 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Maybe time for the EoS to have a rethink.

When your opponent is down you go for the kill.

Offer all the remaining East juniors an opportunity to move en bloc.

Tayside teams don't deserve to be penalised because of TJ

Don't think the EOS will like that suggestion 

[Truthteller]

5 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Except that they're not in the LL's catchment area - nothing to do with TJ. North of the tay Bridge is Highland League territory. Those clubs, if coming into the pyramid, would need to form a regional league beneath it and chap at the HFL door.

 

How far west does the EOS catchment area go ? 

[Jock Tamson]

Except that they're not in the LL's catchment area - nothing to do with TJ. North of the tay Bridge is Highland League territory. Those clubs, if coming into the pyramid, would need to form a regional league beneath it and chap at the HFL door.
 

Are the catchment area's rigid?

[Jock Tamson]

Are the catchment area's rigid?

By that, I mean can they be looked at again and altered?

[Dunning1874]

14 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

Well the east has certainly given a master class in how not to do it.  At least the likes of Blackburn Utd and Dalkeith, who thought they had pulled a fast one over their former junior colleagues will end up precisely where they started,  back in the mediocrity of the teams they thought they had left behind.

This has been a common criticism throughout this thread since the flurry of applications to the EoS started. The logic behind it essentially being that as the likes of Blackburn and Dalkeith aren't as good on the park as the likes of Linlithgow or Bo'ness, they had no right to apply to the pyramid ahead of those clubs who are better on the pitch and are therefore trying to pull a fast one by artificially propelling themselves to a higher level ahead of clubs who outperform them on the pitch.

What no one making this argument has been able to do is offer an alternative solution to what those clubs were supposed to do in the circumstances.

If Blackburn wanted to join the pyramid but larger clubs didn't, were they supposed to just accept remaining in the Juniors, potentially for several years, until Bonnyrigg, Penicuik and every other club bigger than them decided they were ready to go? Basically giving Blackburn no right to decide their own future in the meantime?

It's perfectly apparent that some of the bigger clubs are only now going because their hand has been forced. If Blackburn, Dalkeith and the rest hadn't applied to go for next season then Linlithgow and Bo'ness wouldn't be considering going for next season. Far from the smaller clubs stealing a march on bigger clubs by applying, they've been the catalyst for the bigger clubs to move. If they hadn't done so they'd still be sitting twiddling their thumbs in an organisation they didn't want to be part of, still getting no progress on fixtures, licensing and Scottish Cup access.

What else were they supposed to do?

Edited May 27, 2018 by Dunning1874

[Jambo'ness]

1 minute ago, Jock Tamson said:

10 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Except that they're not in the LL's catchment area - nothing to do with TJ. North of the tay Bridge is Highland League territory. Those clubs, if coming into the pyramid, would need to form a regional league beneath it and chap at the HFL door.
 

Are the catchment area's rigid?

Not entirely, certainly in the past and of course Clydebank were interested earlier this season

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, Jambo'ness said:

Not entirely, certainly in the past and of course Clydebank were interested earlier this season

The way to test it is for a Tayside club from north of the midpoint of the Tay Road bridge to put in an application. The worst that could happen is that it gets turned down, so there's nothing to lose in trying.

[Jock Tamson]

The way to test it is for a Tayside club from north of the midpoint of the Tay Road bridge to put in an application. The worst that could happen is that it gets turned down, so there's nothing to lose in trying.

My thoughts exactly. Again, it may only take 1 to do it for the rest to follow.

[FairWeatherFan]

58 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'd suggest a third level 7 league as a feeder to the Superleague. Why would the North Superleague agree to another barrier to promotion?

Why should East Region Superleague clubs be punished by having to go into a Tier 7 league when really they should be at Tier 6. Having the current North Superleague and a new Tayside league feeding into the HL seems fair. It's all going to be down to those that are interested in the pyramid, there might still be some interest in staying Junior.

The fact it never seems to have been addressed in PWG meetings is shocking. It gives potential false hope to those in the East Region that they could still be in the LL area and has just led to this uncertainty.

3 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

How far west does the EOS catchment area go ? 

Clydebank looked to apply. If you wanted go down a longitude Threave Rovers had a team in the league in the pre-Lowland League days.

[Jambo'ness]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The way to test it is for a Tayside club from north of the midpoint of the Tay Road bridge to put in an application. The worst that could happen is that it gets turned down, so there's nothing to lose in trying.

The natural preference for most clubs would be to have access to a League in their geographical area.  This is where the SFA have to step in and create a pathway for clubs north of the Tay to be able to ultimately get into the Highland League.  After all, you wouldn't expect to see Torquay United in the Northern Premier League, so why would Carnoustie (for example) be suitable to join the EOS.

I'm sure all of this has been done to death but now clubs are waking up and smelling the coffee.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The way to test it is for a Tayside club from north of the midpoint of the Tay Road bridge to put in an application. The worst that could happen is that it gets turned down, so there's nothing to lose in trying.

Exactly! At least then everyone will know where they stand and it becomes a topic of discussion that could lead to change if the majority wants it.

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, Tynieness said:

I wonder if they can accept them all, it's going to be a bit of a headache if the rest apply.

How are they going to allocate? If they decide to limit then surely those who got in first will have applications honoured?  Or if they say we can only take say 20 teams would they put LRFC or BUFC ahead of someone that applied earlier due to them being a bigger name?

Going to be interesting to see how they sort it out.

If the numbers end up getting out of control could they maybe split into three leagues rather than two for a conference system, with the top five in each going into tier 6 for 19/20 while the sixth placed sides play off for the last remaining place? That's dependent on whether anyone is being promoted/relegated to the Lowland League obviously, and having a three way playoff to decide the overall champion in time for a promotion playoff v SoS could be a struggle. Or could they run with two sections larger than 16, possibly not running a cup competition to save fixture slots?

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Why should East Region Superleague clubs be punished by having to go into a Tier 7 league when really they should be at Tier 6. Having the current North Superleague and a new Tayside league feeding into the HL seems fair. It's all going to be down to those that are interested in the pyramid, there might still be some interest in staying Junior.

The fact it never seems to have been addressed in PWG meetings is shocking. It gives potential false hope to those in the East Region that they could still be in the LL area and has just led to this uncertainty.

Clydebank looked to apply. If you wanted go down a longitude Threave Rovers had a team in the league in the pre-Lowland League days.

Why should they be punished? They aren' it' because they weren't forward thinking enough to apply

 

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Why should East Region Superleague clubs be punished by having to go into a Tier 7 league when really they should be at Tier 6. Having the current North Superleague and a new Tayside league feeding into the HL seems fair. It's all going to be down to those that are interested in the pyramid, there might still be some interest in staying Junior.

The fact it never seems to have been addressed in PWG meetings is shocking. It gives potential false hope to those in the East Region that they could still be in the LL area and has just led to this uncertainty.

Clydebank looked to apply. If you wanted go down a longitude Threave Rovers had a team in the league in the pre-Lowland League days.

I just think in the long term having East, West and South (if they want it) below one North Superleague makes more sense. If you win the Superleague promotion should be automatic, not more playoffs. 

[bendan]

11 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

This has been a common criticism throughout this thread since the flurry of applications to the EoS started. The logic behind it essentially being that as the likes of Blackburn and Dalkeith aren't as good on the park as the likes of Linlithgow or Bo'ness, they had no right to apply to the pyramid ahead of those clubs who are better on the pitch and are therefore trying to pull a fast one by artificially propelling themselves to a higher level ahead of clubs who outperform them on the pitch.

What no one making this argument has been able to do is offer an alternative solution to what those clubs were supposed to do in the circumstances.

If Blackburn wanted to join the pyramid but larger clubs didn't, were they supposed to just accept remaining in the Juniors, potentially for several years, until Bonnyrigg, Penicuik and every other club bigger than them decided they were ready to go? Basically giving Blackburn no right to decide their own future in the meantime?

It's perfectly apparent that some of the bigger clubs are only now going because their hand has been forced. If Blackburn, Dalkeith and the rest hadn't applied to go for next season then Linlithgow and Bo'ness wouldn't be considering going for next season. Far from the smaller clubs stealing a march on bigger clubs by applying, they've been the catalyst for the bigger clubs to move. If they hadn't done so they'd still be sitting twiddling their thumbs in an organisation they didn't want to be part of, still getting no progress on fixtures, licensing and Scottish Cup access.

What else were they supposed to do?

Totally agree with this. The snobbery of some of the fans of the bigger junior clubs is ridiculous. This situation could have been avoided if the SJFA had supported, and engaged with, the development of an appropriate pyramid system. They didn't and we've now got a bit of a mess in the east. There's still time to learn and avoid this mess in the north and west, but the evidence suggests they'll adopt an even more obtuse and conservative position.

[cmontheloknow]

In terms of the boundary between LL and HL, it is set in stone (currently) to be the midway point of the Tay Bridge. Obviously that can be revisited but that would have to go to the SPFL I'd have thought as they relegate clubs into the LL/HL along the line decreed - it's not up to the EoS to alter that.

So IMO not straight-forward to address but not an 'unfixable' issue.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Clydebank looked to apply. If you wanted go down a longitude Threave Rovers had a team in the league in the pre-Lowland League days.

Clydebank applied and have been accepted, the difference between them and tayside clubs being there was no league in the pyramid within the LL /HL boundary.