Junior football, what is the future?

[Jacksgranda]

11 hours ago, Dead said:

Personally I have never understood why the dividing line or boundary has to be a horizontal straight line. Curves work just as well , slightly tongue in cheek but if a team is marginally outside an obvious best fit then we should be helping them instead of just following the "party line"

"straight line", Shirley?

[heedthebaa]

23 minutes ago, Bathgate_Exile said:

Totally agree. The silence from the sjfa makes me think (tin hat time) they're happy for the east to implode, that way they don't have a headache of trying to suss out what to do with the east juniors when pushing a west sl etc that's part of the pyramid structure at the same level as Eos. 

 

The handling of this whole thing has been utterly shameful by both the sjfa and ersjfa. 

 

It doesn't help all the underhand tactics of the Eos by constantly moving the goalposts. How many deadlines have we had now? Every time the date has moved it's caused more confusion resulting in teams panicking and leaping into the unknown.

 

Those teams that set out their stall early doors (like Dalkeith) clearly done some research and after much deliberation came to a conclusion the Eos was best for them. All the moves from teams in the last few days/week simply stinks of panic and desperation. To move to Eos simply cos your neighbours are is a little sad. 

Agree with most of this except the criticism of the Eos, they’ve been nothing but accommodating towards the junior clubs. They’d have been slated if they’d kept to the original deadline and told the latecomers to piss off. This isn’t their doing, there’s nothing underhanded about it

[LongTimeLurker]

So the only inaccuracy in FairWeatherFan's graphic is St Andrews United at this point along with jumping the gun a bit with Newtongrange Star? The seven in orange are the ones known or believed to be having some sort of meeting before the 31st.

[AlanCamelonfan]

10 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

So the only inaccuracy in FairWeatherFan's graphic is St Andrews United at this point along with jumping the gun a bit with Newtongrange Star? The seven in orange are the ones known or believed to be having some sort of meeting before the 31st.

St Andrews is iffy Newtongrange will get in.

[LongTimeLurker]

9 hours ago, Robert James said:

This suggestion is not appropriate at this late stage, as it would cause further confusion and uncertainty. There are two clear reasons :

(1) the current Highland/Lowland boundary needs to be reviewed fully, by the PWG  in consultation with the SFA, SPFL and the Highland & Lowland Leagues, with input from the EoSL and the  SJFA or ERJFA. This is far from a straightforward issue, and it cannot be modified' off the cuff', in the last week of May 

(2) both the EoSL and the East Region Junior Leagues have already proposed their revised structures for 2018/19. This must be consolidated this week IMO. Tayside & Perth clubs still have a Super League to play in for next season, and 2 regional divisions below it.

What's really inappropriate is the SFA leaving clubs in Tayside in limbo where club licensing and progression is concerned, because they know full well that the Highland League have no intention of agreeing to promotion and relegation any time soon and are likely to view the possible future inclusion of ambitious Tayside clubs as being as welcome as a piranha in a jacuzzi. If any club that is based only a few miles north of Jeanfield Swift felt so inclined where's the harm in testing out if there is any flexibility on this? The EoS already has Tweedmouth on board that are a few miles over another line is jurisdictional terms.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

So the only inaccuracy in FairWeatherFan's graphic is St Andrews United at this point along with jumping the gun a bit with Newtongrange Star? The seven in orange are the ones known or believed to be having some sort of meeting before the 31st.

Think Newtongrange had declared at that point. It was St. Andrews and Arniston where I jumped the gun a bit, at that point it was still rumour based off of the Haddington's secretary's tweet (which as a source 5/6 ain't bad). Soon after I posted it news of St. Andrews reconsidering came out and I was left wondering about Arniston until after 22.00 when it became official.

[Cyril]

So at the moment, they EOS have 32 teams, if it rises to 36 by Thursday it will be two leagues of 18 and I would imagine 4 out of the 7 clubs "supposedly" having meetings will apply. Anymore than 36 teams will present them with a problem. 

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, Cyril said:

So at the moment, they EOS have 32 teams, if it rises to 36 by Thursday it will be two leagues of 18 and I would imagine 4 out of the 7 clubs "supposedly" having meetings will apply. Anymore than 36 teams will present them with a problem. 

My money's on three rather than two sections being the solution.

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 minutes ago, Cyril said:

So at the moment, they EOS have 32 teams, if it rises to 36 by Thursday it will be two leagues of 18 and I would imagine 4 out of the 7 clubs "supposedly" having meetings will apply. Anymore than 36 teams will present them with a problem. 

I actually think 3 leagues of 12 would be better in terms of qualifying if more teams apply then can add to it to qualify for leage of 16 

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What's really inappropriate is the SFA leaving clubs in Tayside in limbo where club licensing and progression is concerned, because they know full well that the Highland League have no intention of agreeing to promotion and relegation any time soon and are likely to view the possible future inclusion of ambitious Tayside clubs as being as welcome as a piranha in a jacuzzi. If any club that is based only a few miles north of Jeanfield Swift felt so inclined where's the harm in testing out if there is any flexibility on this? The EoS already has Tweedmouth on board that are a few miles over another line is jurisdictional terms.

I'm not sure how much historical membership to the SFA came into it or when the "commitment to the pyramid" kicked in, but I think a North of Tay club in the East Region could get a licence and stay where they are. As long as they met the criteria for licencing but not the Highland League there is no where for them to go senior league wise.

4 minutes ago, Cyril said:

So at the moment, they EOS have 32 teams, if it rises to 36 by Thursday it will be two leagues of 18 and I would imagine 4 out of the 7 clubs "supposedly" having meetings will apply. Anymore than 36 teams will present them with a problem. 

EoS is right now is 31 as St. Andrews appear to be back in the East Region but still considering their options i'm guessing. Which is why they've not said anything publicly.

[Dev]

9 hours ago, jc1 said:

10 hours ago, G4Mac said:

JC you haven't told everyone why you hold such an opinion though, I guess that is why the question was asked.
For example, have you took the time to look into what the eosfl offers over and above that which the lower league junior teams receive right now from the sjfa? Have you considered that without new challenges and change some of the clubs you speak of may cease to exist in a few years? Have you given regard to having an under 20s development league to develop new talent from and the new players entering a club because of this? Have you considered that in moving to the eosfl these so called mediocre clubs may infact attract a calibre of player they would never have been able to attract otherwise? 
Holding an opinion is fine, and you are entitled to yours certainly, however I would suggest looking into what is on offer for the clubs (not on the park teams) who are joining the eosfl. This would tell anyone who looked that there are prospects/potential to progress off the park, which would not be possible by remaining junior (whole club progression - not just on park 1st team success).
That isn't my opinion though, in analysing what the pros are for remaining junior and the pros for joining the eosfl - if I were a club, at any level in the Juniors, I would move, everytime. The heart can't rule the head with these things (from someone who played junior for his entire adult career), the logical decision with what's on offer (longer term) by joining the pyramid far outweighs anything the sjfa can offer a club. If you take both associations, for what they have written down in black and white, in their constitution, processes and regulations, it really appears a straight forward decision. Logically. 

At no point did I call any club mediocre!!! All what you have said is great BUT where does the funding come from to do ground improvements and run u20 sides ECT? There is a pot for EoS I understand but when that pot needs to be shared out to another say 30 clubs then each club receives or potentially receives a great deal less than they were surviving on so these teams leaving for the promise of a pot of gold and stability to survive are being lead up a garden path imo

This whole change in the East has come as a huge shock to many East Region Junior clubs, managers, players and supporters but, at the end of the day it is what it is. There comes a tipping point when it is time to move with the flow and to try to take advantage of what the new situation offers. At the end of the day that will be what each club makes of it.

If a club like Fauldhouse moves to the EoS it would be with a squad which is "on the up" and the club would be, straight away, one season from promotion to the Lowland League or from winning a place in a truly strong Eastern Super League. If a club chooses to hang on in the East Region or, even, to try its' luck in the West Region, what will be the future then? Will you be able to retain your players and to improve your squad in order to be competitive there?

I was one of those who fully expected the EoS to wither away into being a glorified Edinburgh & Lothians Super Amateur League but  the League has defied the odds. How? By committing to the Pyramid! and by good management. Both of which are sustainable. Given that we have a pyramid in the East it seems highly unlikely that it is now going to go away.

[Sergeant Wilson]

18 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What's really inappropriate is the SFA leaving clubs in Tayside in limbo where club licensing and progression is concerned, because they know full well that the Highland League have no intention of agreeing to promotion and relegation any time soon and are likely to view the possible future inclusion of ambitious Tayside clubs as being as welcome as a piranha in a jacuzzi. If any club that is based only a few miles north of Jeanfield Swift felt so inclined where's the harm in testing out if there is any flexibility on this? The EoS already has Tweedmouth on board that are a few miles over another line is jurisdictional terms.

The more it goes on, it appears SFA policy has been to let the junior structure disintegrate and pick up the survivors.

Whoda thunk!

[Dev]

10 hours ago, GordonS said:

The north-south line is written into the SPFL rules - but it's only there for the purposes of where a club goes if it finishes bottom and loses the play-off. Those north would go to the HL, those south would go to the LL. As far as I'm aware nobody else is compelled to use it - though the LL and the HL might have a problem with the SPFL if they messed around with it.

There's no boundary for the EoS or, I think, the SoS.

Yes, Gordon, I believe that you are making a valid point. The East Region Juniors which are north of the Tay Bridge should be allowed the choice, on a club by club basis about which part of the pyramid they play in - if they wish to enter the pyramid in the first place. Simples.

They are not established SPFL clubs with larger budgets. It would allow them to live within their means. Why force such clubs into something which could hold them back long term, compared to those which lie to the south? There's just no need for it. The clubs wishes should be what determines what they do as they have to deal with the every day consequences.

By all means tell established relegated SPFL clubs to go north but then why would the existing Highland Leaguers want to be forced to play outwith their region?

It would be simpler to let clubs choose and go along with that.

 

[Born To Run]

Nitten have gone. They are now talking about who will join them!

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, BoomShakalaka said:

To be fair Bill it looks like a got a bit of a bite there! Anyways the offer is still there .... Ive never tried whacky baccy in my life thats a scandalous statement to make! I am not too confident regards the game tonight we have not been great the last few weeks.

At least next season you wont have so far to travel with many of the games being derby games and probably bigger crowds also  as not many teams bring fans with the exception of a few.  I am pleased that you have accepted that this is the best way forward for all. Many clubs have now figured out that the future is licencing and I dont think you will be able to stay away !

I always enjoy celebrations.  I am hopeful we can win the EOS next season Bill so hopefully another celebration next year.

You don't seem to have grasped my point..made many times..I wont be attending any of the new league games next season..whatever their local colour..but I am sure that the Rose,s Board are happy that some of the clubs that have given them their best gates are in the mix.....Licensing is an obvious goal to ensure entry into the senior Scottish cup in the future and many clubs could achieve this in the next few years...but many wont .

I am sure that someone will fill one of the spaces my car took up in the bottom end of the Social Clubs car park that they so generously allow us to use on match days and that is in spite of the animosity  shown towards their OffIcials and Committee from the Rose,s Board over the years.

I will leave it at that as on Thursday I am going to explore the land of Homer and Socrates..in  good company ...courtesy of Fred Olson...

Enjoy  your new adventures next season..but there wont be a Kelty style league romp in 2018/19 with the avalanche of teams applying for your league.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

 

I am sure that someone will fill one of the spaces my car took up in the bottom end of the Social Clubs car park 

They'll be glad to see the back of you.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

They'll be glad to see the back of you.

Sure they will.....new motto at New Dundas..Upwards and Onwards...…...Don't think your uniform will be welcome at New Dundas Sargeant….its the Brit army and that's a no no.

[Marten]

58 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What's really inappropriate is the SFA leaving clubs in Tayside in limbo where club licensing and progression is concerned, because they know full well that the Highland League have no intention of agreeing to promotion and relegation any time soon and are likely to view the possible future inclusion of ambitious Tayside clubs as being as welcome as a piranha in a jacuzzi. If any club that is based only a few miles north of Jeanfield Swift felt so inclined where's the harm in testing out if there is any flexibility on this? The EoS already has Tweedmouth on board that are a few miles over another line is jurisdictional terms.

I wonder with Tweedmouth, if they were to win promotion to the LL (unlikely, I know!), do they have to accept them seeing as it's a club outside of Scotland? Or could the EOS/SOS in theory accept any club from Northumberland/Cumbria and they have to be given the chance to move up the leagues in Scotland?

I know there is a precedent in Berwick Rangers being in the Scottish Leagues, but they have been playing in Scotland from the early days, so that might be an exception to any rules if they exist?

Edited May 28, 2018 by Marten

[BoomShakalaka]

17 minutes ago, BENJI BOY said:

Sure they will.....new motto at New Dundas..Upwards and Onwards...…...Don't think your uniform will be welcome at New Dundas Sargeant….its the Brit army and that's a no no.

Bill,

Has your old pal/ cohort finally finished the car park? Hes finally done a good job. Shame you wont get to use it if I were to drive I would have parked in your space but I dont. Brit Army uniform not welcomed at NDP? Care to explain...?

[superbigal]

I risk getting banned from all grounds haha but believe influences are strong from the hierarchy in the Tayside area.

The evidence of no one breaking ranks supports this.

Only dissent I have spotted is from Arbroath vics Twitter who are not happy.

I would have thought a team like Dundee north end who had a fantastic season for no reward may have been a little more vocal as an example.