Ginaro Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: As things stand the HL is only negotiating with the NCL and north region And? How does the HL negotiate with the Tayside clubs if they don't want anything to do with the HL? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 32 minutes ago, parsforlife said: I can’t see that being true. LL was at the beginning and always has been since been very open about Junior sides being part of it. They have always been able to apply and join and were given plenty of info about it. The fact a handful of self indulgent arseholes actively prevented such info coming through, put a lot of effort campaigning against the pyramid and that so many fell for their lies was a far bigger surprise. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/245852/new-pyramid-system-for-highland-league/ From June 2014 when the pyramid became official and the Highland Leage were talking up the potential of the Angus SPFL clubs and Tayside Juniors possibly joining due to the pyramid becoming a reality. Of course it was all just a pack deceitful lies 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Shandrix Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Ginaro said: And? How does the HL negotiate with the Tayside clubs if they don't want anything to do with the HL? Fairly sure no Tayside club has said this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said: Fairly sure no Tayside club has said this. Looking forward rather than reliving the past, I would suggest to the Tayside clubs that they formally drop their 'junior' status, and officially rebrand themselves as an independent "senior" Midland League for 2021/22. Having done so, they could then apply to join the pyramid for 2022/23. During this 'interim' 12 months, the clubs themselves can then decide whether they wish to join the HFL, or the SLFL pyramid. Having then done so,, they would be in a stronger position to apply pressure to the Lowland/Highland league (of their choice), and make a formal 'application' to be accepted (at tier 6).. At this point, the SFA would need to 'promote' a resolution, after obtaining the views of the SPFL clubs, who would also need confirm their position. IMO the Tayside clubs have nothing to lose, as NONE of them are currently licensed,, and it would probably take until 2023/24 for any of them to achieve this goal (assuming some of these clubs wanted to become licensed). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Ginaro said: And? How does the HL negotiate with the Tayside clubs if they don't want anything to do with the HL? Think you have that backwards. According to David Baikie of Tayport in the recent podcast the Highland League don't want them. Nothing was said about it being vice versa and they would only know the HL's posture if the topic had been actively explored at some point. The HL agreed to a Club 42 boundary for SPFL relegation at a point when most people thought the juniors would stay separate and keep chasing TJ's Holy Grail. What was said in the P&J many years ago when it was a hypothetical means diddlysquat if HL clubs have no interest in doing anything in the here and now to facilitate Tayside entry when the tier 6 feeder arrangements are being actively negotiated. Think interested clubs need to test whether Luncarty style EoS entry is doable this season to gain full clarity on that issue. That may be a non-starter if the LL can now be trusted by the EoS clubs not to change the Club 42 rule in exchange for something from the SPFL. The LL appear to have wanted money to sign off on it last season but the SPFL refused. David Baikie definitely seemed to think that the EoS also don't want the north of the Club 42 boundary east region north clubs and the EoS fixture secretary appears to be green dotting posts in support of that posture on here. The east region north will probably soon be all that's left of the east region and if so could soon (as in a few weeks from now once all the east region south applications have gone in) easily ask to be included in the tier 6 negotiations for the HL as the east region on par with the north region. If that's not happening at that point they could justifiably publicly request SFA help on tier 5 entry as a Midlands League to highlight their plight if they can clearly demonstrate that access to both the LL and HL feeder systems is being actively denied to them. Edited January 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 47 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think you have that backwards. According to David Baikie of Tayport in the recent podcast the Highland League don't want them. Nothing was said about it being vice versa and they would only know the HL's posture if the topic had been actively explored at some point. The HL agreed to a Club 42 boundary for SPFL relegation at a point when most people thought the juniors would stay separate and keep chasing TJ's Holy Grail. What was said in the P&J many years ago when it was a hypothetical means diddlysquat if HL clubs have no interest in doing anything in the here and now to facilitate Tayside entry when the tier 6 feeder arrangements are being actively negotiated. You're right. A podcast interview where someone explicitly states that they're not involved with anything that's going on is fact, not of course the same gossipy hearsay that happens on the internet. Especially as what was said is that neither the Highland or the Lowland League want the Dundee clubs, he thinks because of travel. The Highland League, the Lowland League, or even the EoSFL can only facilitate something if someone bothers to ask. At which point there's no proof of anything other than the Tayside teams trying to get into the pyramid collectively as the East Region. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Of course the HFL don't want the North of Tay juniors in their league: the HFL is a Tier 5 league for licenced teams, it's not their job to create a Tier 6 league for Tayside. The Tayside clubs should be either speaking to the North Region or coming up with something themselves (a new league or at least trying their luck with the EoSFL, however unlikely that is). None of this appears to be happening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Cyclizine said: The Tayside clubs should be either speaking to the North Region or coming up with something themselves (a new league or at least trying their luck with the EoSFL, however unlikely that is). None of this appears to be happening. Have you not heard about the wonderful new Midland League for Tayside, Fife and Perthshire teams coming in 202X? Somebody's clearly organising it since its been mentioned on a couple of podcasts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 So let's get this back on track before the thread gets completely derailed by people who are determined to have time-wasting petty arguments. Known to be applying to EoS: Livingston United , Tayport Rumoured to be applying to EoS: most of the rest of east region south, Cupar Hearts Unclear what's happening but likely to be in the pyramid somehow eventually: rest of east region north Can anyone shed any more light beyond that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: people who are determined to have time-wasting petty arguments Pot, meet Kettle... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Shandrix Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 12 hours ago, Robert James said: Looking forward rather than reliving the past, I would suggest to the Tayside clubs that they formally drop their 'junior' status, and officially rebrand themselves as an independent "senior" Midland League for 2021/22. Having done so, they could then apply to join the pyramid for 2022/23. During this 'interim' 12 months, the clubs themselves can then decide whether they wish to join the HFL, or the SLFL pyramid. Having then done so,, they would be in a stronger position to apply pressure to the Lowland/Highland league (of their choice), and make a formal 'application' to be accepted (at tier 6).. At this point, the SFA would need to 'promote' a resolution, after obtaining the views of the SPFL clubs, who would also need confirm their position. IMO the Tayside clubs have nothing to lose, as NONE of them are currently licensed,, and it would probably take until 2023/24 for any of them to achieve this goal (assuming some of these clubs wanted to become licensed). I can't be arsed trawling through the 164 page cure for insomnia from the SFA or 1600 pages here. Can you or anyone else succinctly sum up the main criteria for licencing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said: I can't be arsed trawling through the 164 page cure for insomnia from the SFA or 1600 pages here. Can you or anyone else succinctly sum up the main criteria for licencing? The ground criteria is the headline part. But there’s also first team, legal/financial and youth sections that club need to meet. The big requirements are cover for 100 and floodlights, but dressing rooms can also be one of the tough criteria to meet if they are too small. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) Lights at 200 lux, enclosed ground that people can't easily see into to, cover for 100 spectators, decent sized dressing rooms for home and away teams on site with extra room and showers for officials and dedicated access to the pitch, lots of administrative stuff that you can find on the SFA website. Edited January 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said: I can't be arsed trawling through the 164 page cure for insomnia from the SFA or 1600 pages here. Can you or anyone else succinctly sum up the main criteria for licencing? https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5839/scottish-fa-club-licensing-manual-2020.pdf There are 4 criteria that get covered: Ground Criteria First Team Football Criteria Youth Team Football Criteria Legal, Admin, Finance and Codes of Practice Criteria For Entry Level Licencing most of 2-4 falls are easily met and often falls in to 'Best Practice'. So the focus goes onto the Ground Criteria portion. Some of the key things there are a boundary wall / permanent screening to obscure views from outside the ground. Pitch dimensions must be a minimum of 90m in length and 56m in width. Best practice is 105x68m. Floodlights must now be 200 lux and min/max .25 having previously just been a recommended level. Dressing rooms for teams and officials with showers and toilets and a decent size to accomdate everyone. Cover for a 100 spectators and toilets which also have to be accessible for with needs, as well as refreshment facilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Shandrix Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Cheers for that @parsforlife, @LongTimeLurker & @FairWeatherFan. Going by this Broughty are pretty much there. The only bit that they fall down on is the seeing into the ground bit. I haven't seen Lochee Harp's new set up yet but they might not be a kick in the arse off it either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jimi Shandrix said: Cheers for that @parsforlife, @LongTimeLurker & @FairWeatherFan. Going by this Broughty are pretty much there. The only bit that they fall down on is the seeing into the ground bit. I haven't seen Lochee Harp's new set up yet but they might not be a kick in the arse off it either. Had a look at broughty on non-league Scotland. Aye they’ll probably not be too far away. But the awkward wee things do add up. For example the goals would need changed as portable goals aren’t acceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 If the East Juniors (North) were to reform as a stand alone league in the Pyramid they would set their own entry criteria which wouldn't require the standards demanded for Licencing e.g. Maybe use the EoS criteria, which seems to be what happened when the WoS was formed. If the clubs or region merged with another league within the Pyramid then that leagues' rules would apply unless there was an alternative agreement e.g. if the North and East (North) regions agreed to merge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Plus a defibrillator available on site and at training on all occasions, not a cheap item. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Plus a defibrillator available on site and at training on all occasions, not a cheap item.Pretty sure funding is available for those, particularly if the facility is going to be used for youth teams at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Pretty sure funding is available for those, particularly if the facility is going to be used for youth teams at all.I know it was for EoSFL teams previously, but not sure where that funding came from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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