Junior football, what is the future?

[fan of the juniors]

Not commented on this thread as frankly it was going nowhere & starting to bore me but the news of the last day or so has gave it a shot in the arm .
Has anyone seen who voted for what yet ? Makes very interesting reading so it does . Looking at it Talbot , Cumnock & Glens could join their own wee breakaway league & just play each other for all & eternal . I’m sure they would get the 2 Irvine sides wishing to join them as well .

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Not commented on this thread as frankly it was going nowhere & starting to bore me but the news of the last day or so has gave it a shot in the arm .
Has anyone seen who voted for what yet ? Makes very interesting reading so it does . Looking at it Talbot , Cumnock & Glens could join their own wee breakaway league & just play each other for all & eternal . I’m sure they would get the 2 Irvine sides wishing to join them as well .

Those 5 teams voted against it yes.

[fan of the juniors]

Those 5 teams voted against it yes.

They did

[fan of the juniors]

Also the 4 clubs that never voted are Dunbar Jeanfield Lochore and Saltcoats
Surely for something as big as this these clubs should be brought to task over not voting ?

[.Stuart.]

Those 5 teams voted against it yes.

There wasn’t a vote? It was a questionnaire.

[fan of the juniors]

There wasn’t a vote? It was a questionnaire.

You were to pick a pyramid yes or pyramid no option then an option a or option b choice & lastly entry level . Questionnaire or voting sheet the clubs still had to pick options

[.Stuart.]

You were to pick a pyramid yes or pyramid no option then an option a or option b choice & lastly entry level . Questionnaire or voting sheet the clubs still had to pick options

That was the clubs opinion at the time, I must’ve missed where the vote was.

Meadow have already said they will consult their shareholders when they have more information after the EGM.

[fan of the juniors]

That was the clubs opinion at the time, I must’ve missed where the vote was.

Meadow have already said they will consult their shareholders when they have more information after the EGM.

It’s a strange one though . Know it’s not set in stone but if clubs are against it from the get go then a few fans ain’t gonna change their minds

[Garret Deasy]

So those running the Great Pyramid in the Sky have gone to the moneylenders.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005453/filing-history then click on charges for 21st March 2018

Why this, and why now? Just the pension black hole, or something else?  Come on your accountants/bankers out them give us a view. And you stattos, forget your obscure and obtuse leagues and tell us what you see, instead of scrabbling to jump on a sinking ship.

Could be the SFA are now in the same position as Ranger were when Lloyds Bank put their man Manus Fulleron in place? Perhaps the Bank of Scotland now has first option on every pound that hits the SFA bank account, before the SFA can get their hands on it.

Maybe the Scottish Football Association Limited (The SFA) needs junior clubs on board more than we need them? 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Garret Deasy

[.Stuart.]

 

It’s a strange one though . Know it’s not set in stone but if clubs are against it from the get go then a few fans ain’t gonna change their minds

Very true. For some reason, a lot of folk support the grade of fitba more than the clubs themselves.

 

Then you get the usual stuff, you need floodlights, which you don’t.

 

Crowds would be smaller as if junior fitba is massively supported, they wouldn’t (even in the league we’re in right now, I can’t think of a club that have brought more than 30 fans with them)

 

Travel would increase. It wouldn’t unless you were promoted to the Lowland League which would look unlikely for 99% of junior clubs.

 

You’d lose the Junior Cup. Not really, it could become an all-in non-league trophy and who knows, maybe even get a sponsor.

 

Prices would increase? No they wouldn’t unless you worked your way up the leagues just like any other country in the world

 

Then you get folk saying noone wants to play Arbroath, Elgin, Annan etc. Why not? These clubs have a bigger support than 99% of jnr clubs and that’s with fans having to pay £10+ to get in.

 

 

 

[fan of the juniors]

Very true. For some reason, a lot of folk support the grade of fitba more than the clubs themselves.

Then you get the usual stuff, you need floodlights, which you don’t.

Crowds would be smaller as if junior fitba is massively supported, they wouldn’t (even in the league we’re in right now, I can’t think of a club that have brought more than 30 fans with them)

Travel would increase. It wouldn’t unless you were promoted to the Lowland League which would look unlikely for 99% of junior clubs.

You’d lose the Junior Cup. Not really, it could become an all-in non-league trophy and who knows, maybe even get a sponsor.

Prices would increase? No they wouldn’t unless you worked your way up the leagues just like any other country in the world

Then you get folk saying noone wants to play Arbroath, Elgin, Amman etc. Why not? These clubs have a bigger support than 99% of jnr clubs and that’s with fans having to play £10+ to get in.

Bang on . Nothing would change for the vast majority of the clubs .

[Garret Deasy]

Just a thought on some clubs grasping the pyramid 'route to the top' with such enthusiasm.

We have seen clubs either developing their own grounds or having facilities built which they they accept the responsibility to run usually on a not for profit basis, for the benefit of the local community. There are risks in both these approaches. After all the 3G you get given by the Council today needs regular maintaining (think the maintenance cost of a 3G surface is about £4/hour of use)  and replacing in a relatively short time (5 to 8 years).

If developing their own ground the club will be dependent on grants and probably soft loans. Both approaches come with conditions.

Running a sports facility is not easy. Having it handed on a plate still has its challenges. You just need professional management, this is not a game.  Some are currently struggling with this, and in some cases have tried to hand it back to Council or Leisure Trust which  just won't happen. 

Those successful in obtaining direct funding have the temptation to splash the cash on players with the plan to recover that money from future success on the pitch and additional income from the hire of facilities. 

I see Auchinleck are happy to stay junior, a club who have built gradually and live within their means.  And there are many others at all levels with similar approach to running a successful junior club.

It is a shame the realistic ambitions of those clubs get drowned out by those who will only survive with the extra shekels from the SFA as they climb the slippery slope of the money tree on offer. 

 

 

[Goalie Hamish]

Just a thought on some clubs grasping the pyramid 'route to the top' with such enthusiasm.
We have seen clubs either developing their own grounds or having facilities built which they they accept the responsibility to run usually on a not for profit basis, for the benefit of the local community. There are risks in both these approaches. After all the 3G you get given by the Council today needs regular maintaining (think the maintenance cost of a 3G surface is about £4/hour of use)  and replacing in a relatively short time (5 to 8 years).
If developing their own ground the club will be dependent on grants and probably soft loans. Both approaches come with conditions.
Running a sports facility is not easy. Having it handed on a plate still has its challenges. You just need professional management, this is not a game.  Some are currently struggling with this, and in some cases have tried to hand it back to Council or Leisure Trust which  just won't happen. 
Those successful in obtaining direct funding have the temptation to splash the cash on players with the plan to recover that money from future success on the pitch and additional income from the hire of facilities. 
I see Auchinleck are happy to stay junior, a club who have built gradually and live within their means.  And there are many others at all levels with similar approach to running a successful junior club.
It is a shame the realistic ambitions of those clubs get drowned out by those who will only survive with the extra shekels from the SFA as they climb the slippery slope of the money tree on offer. 
 
 

3g lifespan is 10-12 years. Very few clubs will end up with a 3g/sports hub style set-up. Who wanted to hand back the facilities?

[Che Dail]

10 minutes ago, Garret Deasy said:

I see Auchinleck are happy to stay junior, a club who have built gradually and live within their means.  And there are many others at all levels with similar approach to running a successful junior club.

It is a shame the realistic ambitions of those clubs get drowned out by those who will only survive with the extra shekels from the SFA as they climb the slippery slope of the money tree on offer. 

Happy to stay Junior, play in the Scottish Cup and apply for and accept funding from SFP to upgrade facilities.

[drs]

14 minutes ago, Garret Deasy said:

It is a shame the realistic ambitions of those clubs get drowned out by those who will only survive with the extra shekels from the SFA as they climb the slippery slope of the money tree on offer. 

Being in the pyramid actively encourages realistic ambition - staying in a separate junior league only encourages stagnation. Its not about the money, its about ensuring that your club can move to an appropriate level based on performance levels on and off the park.

Most current "Junior" clubs will stay at the level they are at now, the likes of Dunipace, Muirkirk, West Calder and Tayport can be part of the pyramid without having to worry about your money tree in exactly the same way that the likes of Stenhousemuir and Arbroath can be part of the SPFL pyramid despite knowing they are never going to make it to the top fight. You cut your cloth according to the level you are at. 

That should be the realistic ambition for all "Junior" clubs.

[mrman2011]

Just a thought on some clubs grasping the pyramid 'route to the top' with such enthusiasm.
We have seen clubs either developing their own grounds or having facilities built which they they accept the responsibility to run usually on a not for profit basis, for the benefit of the local community. There are risks in both these approaches. After all the 3G you get given by the Council today needs regular maintaining (think the maintenance cost of a 3G surface is about £4/hour of use)  and replacing in a relatively short time (5 to 8 years).
If developing their own ground the club will be dependent on grants and probably soft loans. Both approaches come with conditions.
Running a sports facility is not easy. Having it handed on a plate still has its challenges. You just need professional management, this is not a game.  Some are currently struggling with this, and in some cases have tried to hand it back to Council or Leisure Trust which  just won't happen. 
Those successful in obtaining direct funding have the temptation to splash the cash on players with the plan to recover that money from future success on the pitch and additional income from the hire of facilities. 
I see Auchinleck are happy to stay junior, a club who have built gradually and live within their means.  And there are many others at all levels with similar approach to running a successful junior club.
It is a shame the realistic ambitions of those clubs get drowned out by those who will only survive with the extra shekels from the SFA as they climb the slippery slope of the money tree on offer. 
 
 

They should not be able to play in the Scottish Cup

[Cumbo]

1 hour ago, fan of the juniors said:

Also the 4 clubs that never voted are Dunbar Jeanfield Lochore and Saltcoats
Surely for something as big as this these clubs should be brought to task over not voting ?

Jeanfield did vote/return questionaire

[Glenconner]

You do know there's hundreds of Junior fans who go along to games on a weekly basis who are thinking, "What questionnaire was that" followed by "Wonder how my team voted".

[lokforever]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/juniors/16124649.Pyramid_scheme__SJFA_head_lifts_lid_on_move_to_alter_Juniors_forever/

[cmontheloknow]

40 minutes ago, Cumbo said:

Jeanfield did vote/return questionaire

I heard a team from North Region refused to vote as they felt it did not apply to them.