Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 He isnt saying they wont go, he's basically saying they wont push for it, a very honest statement from a total gentleman who has seen Talbot win the Cup 10 times during his reign. Have Talbot won the cup? You’d think the fans would mention it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.M Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Have Talbot won the cup? You’d think the fans would mention it. yes and much more during his reign....so I'd rather listen to him than some of the posters on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Henry Dumigan is a real nice guy. He is a legend at Talbot and junior football. He has seen his club advance from the dire straits they were in to becoming the top club in the juniors. Can fully understand a man like his reluctance to leave the grade his club have enjoyed for over 100 years and move into the unknown. However it's sounds like he would be happy to bring back the Cumnock and Doon Valley Cup rather than go into a level where his club winning trophies each season would come to an end. He says it's not lack of ambition but honestly sounds simply self preservation. Most junior folk believe the Talbot would be one of junior clubs to excel in a pyramid obviously not the view of Talbot committee. It's strange that the very people you look towards taking the juniors into a new dawn turn out not to be ones. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 yes and much more during his reign....so I'd rather listen to him than some of the posters on here. Ive read his comments, my own personal opinion is that there is a big enough split that Talbot should stay junior, there is enough clubs to sustain a west junior league, if they dont want the pyramid nae bother, clubs have to do what suits them best and absolutely no harm to any who voted no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, archieb said: Astounding arrogance and typical "I'm alright Jack" attitude that was shown when Talbot opposed league reconstruction last year.... But he also said this: ..."The likelihood is that junior football will move into the pyramid system, and we will move to achieve that entry level and possibly higher. "Because if we're in there we want to do as well as we possibly can. Although we've no ambitions to do it, if we're going to be going in there we'll be doing as best as we can, and that means our facilities as well... so it's not quite a Whitburn and the superleagues scenario. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: But he also said this: ..."The likelihood is that junior football will move into the pyramid system, and we will move to achieve that entry level and possibly higher. "Because if we're in there we want to do as well as we possibly can. Although we've no ambitions to do it, if we're going to be going in there we'll be doing as best as we can, and that means our facilities as well... so it's not quite a Whitburn and the superleagues scenario. I had quoted that myself but it got lost in P&B's multi quote formatting. The big clubs need to drive change though, not be dragged kicking and screaming along for the ride. Inevitably they'll complain about the destination if they aren't the drivers. Edited March 28, 2018 by cmontheloknow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 He isnt saying they wont go, he's basically saying they wont push for it, a very honest statement from a total gentleman who has seen Talbot win the Cup 10 times during his reign. Correct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 It's amazing how far things have moved recently in terms of real discussion about integration and moving forward. Not too long ago, there was very little construction discussion about the topic. I think that there are still too many people taking extreme sides from both positions (senior and junior). I am on the side of the seniors and integrating the set-up but I think it's too easy to dismiss lots of junior clubs as being unambitious. History has to be taken into account here. Important for the future that things move forward and there is integration but you also have to recognise the reasons why some clubs are more reluctant to move than others and the current logistical difficulties for the clubs in the west if they move to the pyramid. Whatever happens, I think it would be ridiculous for the juniors to be able to move over and retain their current leagues alongside the senior leagues and somehow be part of the pyramid. That seems impossible. There does, however, need to be big changes made particularly with regards to the west clubs the South of Scotland League. I wouldn't be entirely against possibly retaining the junior cup name and making it the most important trophy for non-league clubs in an integrated set-up. A cup which would be for all of the non-league clubs. The junior cup carries much a bigger weight than any other non-league cups by far. It would probably a bit strange to continue with a "junior" cup if the SJFA was gone and had merged into the seniors but it would recognise the history of the cup. There needs to be more discussion about how best to accommodate and have a pyramid set-up which recognises the need for progress and is about the future (with club licences etc.) but that doesn't mean entirely disregarding the history of the juniors and the junior cup. The sooner we have a unified set up, the better. Proper regionalisation encompassing all of Scotland and a more logical set of divisions and clubs being able to move up to their natural level and being able to play all clubs in their area rather than there being a divide between the clubs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killiepiyo Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 It’s actually a really good statement and clearly outlines our position. If change comes we’ll make the most of it “if we're going to be going in there we'll be doing as best as we can, and that means our facilities as well.” but we aren’t going to be leading the charge for the proposed changes. Can I also point out those of us who r up for joining the pyramid aren’t all yahoo’s who fling out Dino pointing fingers or in some way don’t respect the fantastic history of junior football. I wouldn’t have the nerve to claim I know as much or have been involved in the difficult decisions that Tom J, Henry or any other club official have no doubt had to face over the last few decades. While the blazer wearing prawn eating jollier is an easy/lazy stereotype to apply it, these guys have vast amounts of experience of the game, highs and lows, far more than most the posters on here and I’m sure that will be invaluable in any coming negotiations. Personally I’m stunned I’m liking things posted by the likes of Kenny and Glens fans but that’s the benefit of healthy debate i guess . We all want the best for our clubs and we should be in better shape as a whole regardless of what shape the future takes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Killiepiyo said: It’s actually a really good statement and clearly outlines our position. If change comes we’ll make the most of it “if we're going to be going in there we'll be doing as best as we can, and that means our facilities as well.” but we aren’t going to be leading the charge for the proposed changes. Can I also point out those of us who r up for joining the pyramid aren’t all yahoo’s who fling out Dino pointing fingers or in some way don’t respect the fantastic history of junior football. I wouldn’t have the nerve to claim I know as much or have been involved in the difficult decisions that Tom J, Henry or any other club official have no doubt had to face over the last few decades. While the blazer wearing prawn eating jollier is an easy/lazy stereotype to apply it, these guys have vast amounts of experience of the game, highs and lows, far more than most the posters on here and I’m sure that will be invaluable in any coming negotiations. Personally I’m stunned I’m liking things posted by the likes of Kenny and Glens fans but that’s the benefit of healthy debate i guess . We all want the best for our clubs and we should be in better shape as a whole regardless of what shape the future takes. All I'd say is that if you don't drive the change you can't complain about it afterwards when it's not want you wanted. It's going to happen so be proactive, shape it. The Lowland League is what it is because the SJFA members allowed the officials to 'play ostrich' on the beach. A more proactive approach 10 years ago and we wouldn't be having these conversations now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killiepiyo Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) That’s definitely one opinion, I wasn’t involved in the region or association discussions 5 or ten years ago so have to take peoples/media’s word for it. SJFA represents its members, members have voted for joining the pyramid, Talbot didn’t want that but hey ho, democracy prevails. There is no wrong position to take here, some may argue the pyramid is a false dawn. That’s up to them to decide. Edited March 28, 2018 by Killiepiyo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Killiepiyo said: That’s definitely one opinion, I wasn’t involved in the region or association discussions 5 or ten years ago so have to take peoples/media’s word for it. SJFA represents its members, members have voted for joining the pyramid, Talbot didn’t want that but hey ho, democracy prevails. There is no wrong position to take here, some may argue the pyramid is a false dawn. That’s up to them to decide. I was on Lok committee from 03-09 and in my time there definitely was a survey carried out about interest in the pyramid as it was discussed at committee. Couldn't tell you when exactly but towards end of that period I'd say. This has been on the cards for over a decade. The SJFA refused to engage all the way along, and the members enabled them. Edited March 28, 2018 by cmontheloknow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.M Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Killiepiyo said: That’s definitely one opinion, I wasn’t involved in the region or association discussions 5 or ten years ago so have to take peoples/media’s word for it. SJFA represents its members, members have voted for joining the pyramid, Talbot didn’t want that but hey ho, democracy prevails. There is no wrong position to take here, some may argue the pyramid is a false dawn. That’s up to them to decide. Members havent VOTED to join the pyramid my friend, they filled out a questionaire, in which most also said they would prefer to join at tier 5 as opposed to tier 6, but that certainly cant happen for all those who voted. There would need to be a vote by all clubs now on any formal proposal, which would then also need to be put the relevant SFA tier as well for approval befiore anything can happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 GH - I normally agree with you, but not this time ! If a rump of (say) 50 Junior clubs (not interested in being part of a Pyramid) want to retain a trophy called the Junior Cup, then it should be a matter for the remaining Members of the SJFA to vote on it, and decide. They would be entitled to do so. Having an 'SFA Non League Trophy' would be a good idea, if fixture lists don't make it impossible. This would be a matter for the SFA and Pyramid clubs to decide in due course. Well if we're talking a rump of tinpot clubs want to keep playing for a tinpot bauble in their own wee world that's upto them, they can call it what they want. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killiepiyo Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, A.M said: Members havent VOTED to join the pyramid my friend, they filled out a questionaire, in which most also said they would prefer to join at tier 5 as opposed to tier 6, but that certainly cant happen for all those who voted. There would need to be a vote by all clubs now on any formal proposal, which would then also need to be put the relevant SFA tier as well for approval befiore anything can happen. apologies for my terminology pal, there’s no doubt the discussion is surrounding either joining or not. Respect there is further votes/questionnaires to take place and isn’t a done deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleptomaniac Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 milk and honey no less [emoji23][emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Sounds like a good name for a forum.... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said: I just get the feeling that some of the pro pyramid lobby would rather have superglue expansively applied to their @rse, placed firmly on a skelf ridden plank and allow to set, have someone to rip it aff and skelp them repeatedly on the abruptly skinned posterior, than admit Junior Football can bring anything to the table. Isn't that exactly your attitude towards admitting the pyramid could work? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said: All I'd say is that if you don't drive the change you can't complain about it afterwards when it's not want you wanted. It's going to happen so be proactive, shape it. The Lowland League is what it is because the SJFA members allowed the officials to 'play ostrich' on the beach. A more proactive approach 10 years ago and we wouldn't be having these conversations now. Cmon Glenafton93 rather than red-dotting me like a wean, how about a contrary argument? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I do wonder how many of the 'money is evil' brigade are quick to grumble about postponements and lost income in the winter months? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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