Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

51 minutes ago, Fife Journeyman said:

 

for me the structure is straight forward and not difficult. Lowland League tier 5, EOS and WOS at tier 6 , eventually all clubs in Tiers 5/6 must be licenced say by 2020/21

 

The problem with that is that 1/5th of the population has one tier 5 league - the Highland League, and 4/5ths has one tier 5 league - the Lowland League.

By 2019-20 there should be a Lowland West and  a Lowland East at tier 5, with the 16 most suitable clubs in the Lowlands being added and given one year in which to achieve licensing (if not licensed already).

[Cyclizine]

4 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

The problem with that is that 1/5th of the population has one tier 5 league - the Highland League, and 4/5ths has one tier 5 league - the Lowland League.

By 2019-20 there should be a Lowland West and  a Lowland East at tier 5, with the 16 most suitable clubs in the Lowlands being added and given one year in which to achieve licensing (if not licensed already).

Or alternatively teams get licenced in level 6 and then once there's enough the Lowland League can split. I think this is most likely scenario. Remember changes to level 5 will require negotiation with the SPFL as well as it's their clubs that will be relegated there. I would suggest 2019-20 is an unrealistic timetable.

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Or alternatively teams get licenced in level 6 and then once there's enough the Lowland League can split. I think this is most likely scenario. Remember changes to level 5 will require negotiation with the SPFL as well as it's their clubs that will be relegated there. I would suggest 2019-20 is an unrealistic timetable.

Doubt the LL teams from the West would be keen on a split. What would they gain from it?

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Fife Journeyman said:

Seemingly the SJFA  think they will have a combined Superleague  with 10 West and 6 East teams in place for the start of 2019/20.

Whether they think they should enter at Tier 5 or 6 i dont know.

it all seems very messy. Say an East team were to be relegated what league do they fall into?

for me the structure is straight forward and not difficult. Lowland League tier 5, EOS and WOS at tier 6 , eventually all clubs in Tiers 5/6 must be licenced say by 2020/21

Tiers 7/8 and below could still be run by SJFA for clubs who dont want licenced . It would be better if it was under one body but if SJFA insist they have to be involved they still can be at a much lower level,

I get the feeling the plans in place are to suit TJ and 3/4 of the big west clubs. Cant see the benefit of Lochee or any other Tayside  team for that matter having to travel to  South Ayrshire for a tier 6 league game.

 

Good luck to the SJFA if it forms a Superleague, with both West & East clubs in 2019/20. However I can't see this being accepted by the PWG/SFA if the plan is that it falls within the control of the SJFA. Especially if:

* the SJFA excludes any offer to SoSFL clubs to join it, especially those that are already licensed

 * the SJFA's idea is also to 'bolt on' other SJFA West divisions below it  

* the SJFA seeks to control promotion/relegation  issues between the Lowland League and the Superleague

* the SJFA intends to run the residual East Region clubs, feeding into the new Junior Superleague

* OR it wants its top division established at Tier 5.  

Where would the 6 East clubs go if they were relegated ? No local games for them in the West, and would have to start at the bottom tier, if relegated East teams look to join the EoSL.

Pyramid acceptance ? Very doubtful IMO.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Robert James

[Khufu2]

Just now, Tutankhamen said:

Doubt the LL teams from the West would be keen on a split. What would they gain from it?

We can't be having the tail wagging the dog.  The only vaguely west teams in the LL are EK and Cumbernauld (and we don't know where they'll be playing next season). Why on earth would any club argue against more regionalised football at this level and better representation for the central belt.

[Tutankhamen]

Doubt EK/Cumbernauld Colts/BSC Glasgow would fancy playing the top 12 Junior teams in the West every week.

[GNU_Linux]

Also 3 leagues feeding into one sounds horrible especially if automatic relegation from league 2 isnt in place. As a fan of a WOS club im fine with an all in Lowland League at tier 5 then regionalising at tier 6.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

10 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Doubt EK/Cumbernauld Colts/BSC Glasgow would fancy playing the top 12 Junior teams in the West every week.

Why would you doubt that?

[Khufu2]

10 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Doubt EK/Cumbernauld Colts/BSC Glasgow would fancy playing the top 12 Junior teams in the West every week.

There's no guarantee Alloa would be one of the 16 most westerly loctions and who knows were Cumbernauld will be playing?

What do you think they are afraid of?

[Cyclizine]

14 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Doubt EK/Cumbernauld Colts/BSC Glasgow would fancy playing the top 12 Junior teams in the West every week.

If a west league was formed at level 5 and those teams were qualified to play in it, why wouldn't they? EK have been Lowland champions in the past.

10 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Also 3 leagues feeding into one sounds horrible especially if automatic relegation from league 2 isnt in place. As a fan of a WOS club im fine with an all in Lowland League at tier 5 then regionalising at tier 6.

It's maybe not ideal, but to be fair other countries do similar, Austria for example. Germany has the five Regionalligen playing for three slots in the 3. Liga. Anyway, I think it's off the cards in Scotland for the near future, until there's a significant number of licenced clubs in the Lowland region.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Cyclizine

[Marten]

It's obvious there is huge population difference between the HL & LL area. But there are simple geographic reasons for this. If the boundary is redrawn to match the population in both areas, then you'll get absurd travel distances like Wick going to Stirling for games. The HL can't really cover a larger area due to that reason.

For the LL that is different. That league is central belt dominated and the travel distances in that area are fine for teams that level. I think it makes more sense to have a better quality league with the best teams together rather than split it. To reflect the difference in areas, the PO could become a 4 team PO, with 2 LL teams, 1 HL team and the bottom team of SPFL2 (although I'd ideally like to see automatic relegation from SPFL2).

[Auld Heid]

1 hour ago, Fife Journeyman said:

Seemingly the SJFA  think they will have a combined Superleague  with 10 West and 6 East teams in place for the start of 2019/20.

Whether they think they should enter at Tier 5 or 6 i dont know.

it all seems very messy. Say an East team were to be relegated what league do they fall into?

for me the structure is straight forward and not difficult. Lowland League tier 5, EOS and WOS at tier 6 , eventually all clubs in Tiers 5/6 must be licenced say by 2020/21

Tiers 7/8 and below could still be run by SJFA for clubs who dont want licenced . It would be better if it was under one body but if SJFA insist they have to be involved they still can be at a much lower level,

I get the feeling the plans in place are to suit TJ and 3/4 of the big west clubs. Cant see the benefit of Lochee or any other Tayside  team for that matter having to travel to  South Ayrshire for a tier 6 league game.

 

A TJ innovation from the past - which the West teams didn't want as involved them travelling outside Glasgow/Ayrshire. 

Sadly such thinking aloud suggestions from TJ only muddy the waters for teams with doubts and then get passed on as FACT.

If TJ had anything about him - he would have twigged the SJFA were in the perfect position to swallow up the SoS and EoS back in the day when the LL was first talked about.   Now the shoe is firmly on the foot of the EoS and they have not missed the chance.

[Cyclizine]

7 minutes ago, Marten said:

To reflect the difference in areas, the PO could become a 4 team PO, with 2 LL teams, 1 HL team and the bottom team of SPFL2 (although I'd ideally like to see automatic relegation from SPFL2).

I'm fairly sure that's how it works in Germany: the various Regionalligen and Oberligen get promotion places based on the number of registered clubs in their area. I don't think it's an unfair way of doing it.

[Marten]

1 minute ago, Cyclizine said:

I'm fairly sure that's how it works in Germany: the various Regionalligen and Oberligen get promotion places based on the number of registered clubs in their area. I don't think it's an unfair way of doing it.

Yes, I know indeed, seems fair enough to me.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

A LL west and east is the ideal solution, with the EOSL acting as the feeder league and a new WOSL acting in their area. Junior clubs should be able to stay junior if they wish and let those who want to go senior go.
There needs to be 2 relegation places from league 2, in terms of sporting integrity a one place play off is a disgrace. Ideally I’d actually like to see an SPFL prem, Championship and league 1 merge and League 2 gets split amongst the LL/e/w and HL. That would be a far more sustainable pyramid, It would probably even allow more clubs to go full time and keep part time football affordable/manageable for players.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Fife Journeyman said:

Seemingly the SJFA  think they will have a combined Superleague  with 10 West and 6 East teams in place for the start of 2019/20.

Whether they think they should enter at Tier 5 or 6 i dont know...

This needed to happen 5 years ago with the EoS and SoS factored in as well somehow, so that everything semi-professional being played in enclosed grounds below tier 5 would fall under the SJFA with the amateurs sliding in further down the pyramid after that. Arguing for a "superduper" league under the direct control of the SJFA alongside the EoS and SoS at tier 6 this late in the day after years of ignoring/ridiculing the LL looks more like the desperate flailings of somebody trying to keep their job than anything else given the logical outcome of collective junior entry into an all encompassing pyramid that contains other leagues and associations at tier 6 at this point would be the end of the SJFA as a separate national body.

[the tin man]

The pwg are working towards 2 leagues this season top 8 of both make 1st div for following year. any new teams go in bottom division there will be no new superleague with east and west. think that's why all the east have went now

 

 

[Khufu2]

24 minutes ago, the tin man said:

The pwg are working towards 2 leagues this season top 8 of both make 1st div for following year. any new teams go in bottom division there will be no new superleague with east and west. think that's why all the east have went now

 

 

All the east hasn't gone. A minority of clubs has gone.

The EoS set up for next season is nothing at all to do with the PWG

Edited May 24, 2018 by Khufu2

[cmontheloknow]

2 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

There's no guarantee Alloa would be one of the 16 most westerly loctions and who knows were Cumbernauld will be playing?

What do you think they are afraid of?

Cumbernauld Colts are the main tenants of Broadwood unless things have changed recently?

[the tin man]

All the east hasn't gone. A minority of clubs has gone.
The EoS set up for next season is nothing at all to do with the PWG

Sorry the minority has gone before they go to bottom of what will be 2nd division