Junior football, what is the future?

[Gordon EF]

Just now, Beenzon-Toste said:

Which is exactly where the ERSJFA is now after all the so called big clubs left for the EOSL, a weaker league in the same structure.
What is so wrong with the fact that some clubs wanted to stay within the Association they had been members of many years?
Some clubs left, some wanted to stay. So what?
Why is it so important that they leave behind their preferred association to join the EOSL.

It's not. As far as I'm concerned, junior clubs are prefectly entitled to stay within their associations.

[Gordon EF]

3 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

55 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

As someone with no dog in the EoSL vs ERSJFA fight, it is utterly mental to install a second East feeder underneath the LL. One filled with former ERSJFA memebers who moved last year and one filled with current ERSJFA members who didn't.
If ERSJFA clubs who didn't jump when they had the chance are having regrets, they should accept the consequences of that. If they belong at tier 6 or higher, they'll get there soon enough.

But it won't be a second East feeder, it will be a fourth Lowland feeder.

So there's no geographical overlap between the EoSL and this proposed fourth LL feeder?

Edited September 24, 2019 by Gordon EF

[Burnie_man]

59 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Which is exactly where the ERSJFA is now after all the so called big clubs left for the EOSL, a weaker league in the same structure.
What is so wrong with the fact that some clubs wanted to stay within the Association they had been members of many years?
Some clubs left, some wanted to stay. So what?
Why is it so important that they leave behind their preferred association to join the EOSL.

Clubs left because they wanted to join a Senior league and seek SFA membership, a Licence, play in the Scottish Cup and have the potential to progress up the Pyramid.

Other clubs stayed with the ERJFA as they wanted to remain SJFA members and continue to play Junior football.

Clubs have a choice.  It's not difficult.  Stay and play Junior, or join EoS and play Senior.  They're entitled to do whatever they wish, they're not being denied Senior football if they want it.

[LongTimeLurker]

17 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

...Clubs have a choice.  It's not difficult.  Stay and play Junior, or join EoS and play Senior.  They're entitled to do whatever they wish, they're not being denied Senior football if they want it.

The SJFA's member clubs provided its officeholders with a mandate to negotiate entry into the pyramid at its 2018 AGM. Your junior vs senior agenda is not in tune with the all-embracing pyramid that would emerge if that mandate was followed through to its logical conclusion.

[AlanCamelonfan]

7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SJFA's member clubs provided its officeholders with a mandate to negotiate entry into the pyramid at its 2018 AGM. Your junior vs senior agenda is not in tune with the all-embracing pyramid that would emerge if that mandate was followed through to its logical conclusion.

It is all embracing. Whitburn and bathgate can join eosfl

[GNU_Linux]

The SJFA's member clubs provided its officeholders with a mandate to negotiate entry into the pyramid at its 2018 AGM. Your junior vs senior agenda is not in tune with the all-embracing pyramid that would emerge if that mandate was followed through to its logical conclusion.

That mandate isn't really there considering the north withdrew interest in october/november last year

[stanley]

I've think I've read the Isthmian/Southern League example on here at least 20 times.  It's not really relevant what England did in the 1970s/80s.  Also, the Isthmian League traditionally has a lot of clubs in London and the surrounding areas.  London alone counts for a huge percentage of the population.  You ended up in England with two southern feeders and one northern feeder with Midlands clubs jumping between different leagues.  Northern England accounts for a far smaller population than southern England so there is some logic involved in what happened there decades ago.

In Scotland, population logic would suggest a north, West and East feeder at tier 5 (current north/south divide at tier 5 certainly isn't logical).  It certainly wouldn't suggest two east feeders and what happened in England decades ago doesn't strengthen the two east feeders argument.

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by stanley

[Guest]

The SJFA's member clubs provided its officeholders with a mandate to negotiate entry into the pyramid at its 2018 AGM. Your junior vs senior agenda is not in tune with the all-embracing pyramid that would emerge if that mandate was followed through to its logical conclusion.

So in essence, because the juniors now want involved in the pyramid everyone else has to make the concessions and give up their earned position to allow it to take place, how the sjfa want, when the sjfa want?

Sadly that isn't how things work. A mandate is there for the sjfa to negotiate on its members behalf about pyramid integration. The mandate does not then mean that the sjfa get it all their own way, you have to have a product that is all encompassing for people to allow that to take place, the sjfa don't have that.

They have a strong wrsjfa which every ithe association wants as part of the pyramid. The North appear to have no interest and the east is decidedly weaker in terms of its tier 6 stance. Particularly given there is already a set up covering that geographical area.

No one blocked the whole juniors, they asked the sjfa to make concessions in the east and the sjfa chose not to,hiding behind their mandate. Conveniently forgetting that they dropped the North like a hot tattie when it suited.

There is a simple fix, as has been pointed out many times on here. That doesn't include giving the sjfa the red carpet treatment and everyone else bending over backwards, dancing to the sjfa tune.

[LongTimeLurker]

17 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

So in essence, because the juniors now want involved in the pyramid everyone else has to make the concessions and give up their earned position to allow it to take place, how the sjfa want, when the sjfa want?

It's not a genuine pyramid until they are all on board. Either you support a pyramid or you are still stuck in a grade mentality like Burnie_man seems to be.

[GNU_Linux]

It's not a genuine pyramid until they are all on board. Either you support a pyramid or you are still stuck in a grade mentality like Burnie_man seems to be.

I'd argue that wanting the erjfa in wholesale at tier 6 is grade mentality as its the opposite of common sense all for sake of retaining an archaic divide. I'm speaking as someone from the west who is very pro-pyramid

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, GNU_Linux said:

10 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's not a genuine pyramid until they are all on board. Either you support a pyramid or you are still stuck in a grade mentality like Burnie_man seems to be.

I'd argue that wanting the erjfa in wholesale at tier 6 is grade mentality as its the opposite of common sense all for sake of retaining an archaic divide. I'm speaking as someone from the west who is very pro-pyramid

It's easiest to take the existing leagues and slot them in. That was the approach used in England and Northern Ireland who are our two closest neighbours and the UEFA members we have most in common with culturally. The slotting existing leagues in approach is why what is effectively a D&G amateur league is at tier 6 and nobody involved with the PWG is suggesting that changes. Once the three junior regions are in and operating according to pyramid norms it would quickly dawn on people how little the SJFA actually does in practical terms and it would soon become an irrelevance like the Forfarshire FA.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

 
You're not a very bright troll are you, don't have a meltdown now   

Imagine thinking a 4 way play off is a good idea.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Imagine thinking a 4 way play off is a good idea.

I would say a 4 way play off is a better idea than a 3 way playoff.

Nobody has ever quite set out what they expect that to look like, especially while asking for extra promotion spots.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SJFA's member clubs provided its officeholders with a mandate to negotiate entry into the pyramid at its 2018 AGM. Your junior vs senior agenda is not in tune with the all-embracing pyramid that would emerge if that mandate was followed through to its logical conclusion.

I don't have a Junior v Senior agenda despite how often you try to drag that into the debate.  Why do you constantly do that?

Choice is good don't you think?

[Burnie_man]

34 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's not a genuine pyramid until they are all on board. Either you support a pyramid or you are still stuck in a grade mentality like Burnie_man seems to be.

There you go again.  Here's a hint, stop throwing shit around like the other trolls on here and actually stick to what is being debated.  You really are losing the plot.

 

[Burnie_man]

20 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Imagine thinking a 4 way play off is a good idea.

A 4 way play-off isn't a bad idea in essence, provided that two of those spots aren't given to leagues which cover the same area of the country.  That would be silly.

[Burnie_man]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I would say a 4 way play off is a better idea than a 3 way playoff.

Nobody has ever quite set out what they expect that to look like, especially while asking for extra promotion spots.

The EoS managed a 3 way play-off perfectly last season. Copy that.

[Guest]

It's not a genuine pyramid until they are all on board. Either you support a pyramid or you are still stuck in a grade mentality like Burnie_man seems to be.

Good god you can't be for real? Are you seriously promoting throwing everyone together and fixing it later just because the sjfa want to play ball now?

That's like throwing bricks, wood, mortar and steel in the air and hoping it magically lands together like a house.

[Ped]

But they have had multiple chances to join the pyramid and never accepted it in fact we’re totally against it so why should teams and associations accept there demands now

[LongTimeLurker]

38 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Good god you can't be for real? Are you seriously promoting throwing everyone together and fixing it later just because the sjfa want to play ball now?

Yes, because it would have been good to have the west region in this season.