Junior football, what is the future?

[Ginaro]

On 23/09/2019 at 09:25, LongTimeLurker said:

and the east region's posture is still that they will move back to a single superleague format if pyramid entry happens, so talk of the north and east not wanting to join at tier 6 are red herrings. 

The same east region whose clubs ditched the single superleague format due to too much travelling? Doubt there's enough positives from having a promotion play-off place for one club (which requires a licence anyway) to outweigh the negatives of going back to a single superleague.

Of course if clubs want access to tier 6 and to also play in local leagues, the EOS has both and its door is open for next season...

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, GNU_Linux said:

... If tayside clubs got slotted at tier 6 they'd be in the position whereby they'd be in an LL feeder but unable to promote to it.

That's not as 100% clear cut as has regularly been claimed on here. As things stand all that is defined on the HL:LL boundary is where the team 42 club gets relegated to from the SPFL, and that's something that could still be adjusted.

[Burnie_man]

33 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

At last, Burnie has provided us with the answer we've all been seeking.

"Tayside clubs can't join the LL as it stands"

Change that to allow the Tayside Junior clubs to join the LL.

That then means that the ERSJFA is covering a different geographical area to the EOSL albeit with an overlap. Similar to the WRSJFA and the SOSL.

Both the WRSJFA and the ERSJFA enter at tier 6. That gives us a 4 way play-off for entry to the LL.

Go for it, what have you got to fear?

 

Burnie also states that the ERSJFA will seek to establish themselves and expand.

So that's a bad thing?

Is it not what a dying on its arse EOSL done?

They established themselves and expanded, which was probably the right thing for them to do. Only problem now is, that they want to expand and encompass the East to give them overall control of tier 6, and destroy the Juniors in the process.

 

 

You're not a very bright troll are you, don't have a meltdown now   

Edited September 24, 2019 by Burnie_man

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Do explain why the lothians & fife area should get two pathways to tier 6 but every other part of the country gets one all for sake of retaining the 'junior' label.

There are SoS teams in Ayrshire and Lanarkshire this season and a west region club in Dumfriesshire, so there would be two pathways elsewhere as well.

[LongTimeLurker]

14 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

The same east region whose clubs ditched the single superleague format due to too much travelling? ...

Which is why the EoS is making a mountain out of a molehill. The ERSJFA as it stands is unlikely to be able to sustain a 16 club superleague covering all of its catchment area for any significant length of time. It would probably gradually become a mainly Tayside league, which is something the EoS claims there is a need for.

Edited September 24, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[GNU_Linux]

There are SoS teams in Ayrshire and Lanarkshire this season and a west region club in Dumfriesshire, so there would be two pathways elsewhere as well.

Isolated club cases are a different kettle of fish to a whole feeder getting bunged in next to you

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Which is why the EoS is making a mountain out of a molehill. The ERSJFA as it stands is unlikely to be able to sustain a 16 club superleague covering all of its catchment area for any significant length of time. It would probably gradually become a mainly Tayside league, which is something the EoS claims there is a need for.

*You assume.

You don't plan a Pyramid structure based on assumptions and the hope that a league gradually dwindles away in order to get to where you want to be, That would be silly.

[AlanCamelonfan]

7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There are SoS teams in Ayrshire and Lanarkshire this season and a west region club in Dumfriesshire, so there would be two pathways elsewhere as well.

All 3 are in those leagues for reasons. Dispite technically being in Dumfries travel wise is easier for them to go to ayrshire. You've got to draw a line somewhere. Eg like at my work falkirk and alloa are in a different area from stirling it's just the way a lines been drawn. The two in senior leagues dont have a senior league to go to.

 

In bonnyton case they may go to a wosfl if one was formed. If wrsjfa get in then they'd want them to come in at 4th tier dispute them being a tier 6 side so it's not as straight forward as you suggest

[Burnie_man]

16 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

That's not as 100% clear cut as has regularly been claimed on here. As things stand all that is defined on the HL:LL boundary is where the team 42 club gets relegated to from the SPFL, and that's something that could still be adjusted.

As it stands, it would be kinda silly for the LL (or HL) to admit a club from the other leagues area.  As have been pointed out, you could have Forfar Athletic in the HL area if relegated, but Forfar West End and Forfar Albion in the LL area.

It could get moved of course if the PGB decide to do so, in which case the Tayside clubs could join the EoS..........

[LongTimeLurker]

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

*You assume.

You don't plan a Pyramid structure based on assumptions and the hope that a league gradually dwindles away in order to get to where you want to be, That would be silly.

If you care about having a pyramid as being the top priority the main priority should be getting everybody into the structure and fine tuning from there once it is bedded in like they did in England with the still partially overlapping Isthmian and Southern Leagues that used to form what were effectively separate amateur and semi-professional nonleague grades across southern England. If your top priority is opposition to the junior grade...

[Beenzon-Toste]

 
You're not a very bright troll are you, don't have a meltdown now   [emoji38]

Wow!
What an amazing comeback.
I wish I was as bright as you are.

[Beenzon-Toste]

As it stands, it would be kinda silly for the LL (or HL) to admit a club from the other leagues area.  As have been pointed out, you could have Forfar Athletic in the HL area if relegated, but Forfar West End and Forfar Albion in the LL area.
It could get moved of course if the PGB decide to do so, in which case the Tayside clubs could join the EoS..........

Would the EOSL accept them?

[Burnie_man]

22 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Wow!
What an amazing comeback.
I wish I was as bright as you are.

[Burnie_man]

19 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

31 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

As it stands, it would be kinda silly for the LL (or HL) to admit a club from the other leagues area.  As have been pointed out, you could have Forfar Athletic in the HL area if relegated, but Forfar West End and Forfar Albion in the LL area.
It could get moved of course if the PGB decide to do so, in which case the Tayside clubs could join the EoS..........

Would the EOSL accept them?

You'd need to ask the EoS, but I guess they would if Tayside was ever absorbed into the LL area.  Jeanfield and Kinnoull are members, a bawhair from the dividing line.

[Burnie_man]

27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

If you care about having a pyramid as being the top priority the main priority should be getting everybody into the structure and fine tuning from there once it is bedded in like they did in England with the still partially overlapping Isthmian and Southern Leagues that used to form what were effectively separate amateur and semi-professional nonleague grades across southern England. If your top priority is opposition to the junior grade...

Let's not use England as a benchmark.     You don't just drop a whole load of leagues into the current set-up with absolutely no thought given as the SFA attempted.  We can do better than that.

Get the West in first, that is major progress with little effort.

[Gordon EF]

As someone with no dog in the EoSL vs ERSJFA fight, it is utterly mental to install a second East feeder underneath the LL. One filled with former ERSJFA memebers who moved last year and one filled with current ERSJFA members who didn't.

If ERSJFA clubs who didn't jump when they had the chance are having regrets, they should accept the consequences of that. If they belong at tier 6 or higher, they'll get there soon enough.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

As someone with no dog in the EoSL vs ERSJFA fight, it is utterly mental to install a second East feeder underneath the LL....

All depends where clubs like Lochee United and Broughty Athletic fit in. Having a smaller Tayside heavy feeder in the east would mirror having a smaller D&G heavy feeder in the west. If the SoS can be accommodated at tier 6, it's already very much a case of letting leagues in primarily because they already exist and need to be fitted in somewhere rather than coming up with something rational which would be a two way east-west split at tier 6. 

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

All depends where clubs like Lochee United and Broughty Athletic fit in. Having a smaller Tayside heavy feeder in the east would mirror having a smaller D&G heavy feeder in the west. If the SoS can be accommodated at tier 6, it's already very much a case of letting leagues in primarily because they already exist and need to be fitted in somewhere rather than coming up with something rational which would be a two way east-west split at tier 6. 

That is exactly what I'm in favour of.

The existence of the SoSL at tier 6 is a historical accident really. For that not to be the case, the SoSL would have had to have been actively kicked out of the league structure. For the ESRJFA to be accomodated at tier 6, it would involve actively shoehorning a ridiculous structure into place.

Besides, the SoSL do and always have occupied the lowest rung of the league stucture in their region so it's not really a direct parallel.

I think the seniors should be making concessions where possible to make this happen. There's no reason the East region border can't be amended to suit clubs needs for example.

[Beenzon-Toste]

That is exactly what I'm in favour of.
The existence of the SoSL at tier 6 is a historical accident really. For that not to be the case, the SoSL would have had to have been actively kicked out of the league structure. For the ESRJFA to be accomodated at tier 6, it would involve actively shoehorning a ridiculous structure into place.
Besides, the SoSL do and always have occupied the lowest rung of the league stucture in their region so it's not really a direct parallel.
I think the seniors should be making concessions where possible to make this happen. There's no reason the East region border can't be amended to suit clubs needs for example.

Which is exactly where the ERSJFA is now after all the so called big clubs left for the EOSL, a weaker league in the same structure.
What is so wrong with the fact that some clubs wanted to stay within the Association they had been members of many years?
Some clubs left, some wanted to stay. So what?
Why is it so important that they leave behind their preferred association to join the EOSL.

[Beenzon-Toste]

As someone with no dog in the EoSL vs ERSJFA fight, it is utterly mental to install a second East feeder underneath the LL. One filled with former ERSJFA memebers who moved last year and one filled with current ERSJFA members who didn't.
If ERSJFA clubs who didn't jump when they had the chance are having regrets, they should accept the consequences of that. If they belong at tier 6 or higher, they'll get there soon enough.

But it won't be a second East feeder, it will be a fourth Lowland feeder.