Todders Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Aye, you should always seek the permission of others before exercising your right to self-determination. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Todders said: Aye, you should always seek the permission of others before exercising your right to self-determination. This "right to self determination" bollocks gets right on my tits, there's no such thing. You either gain it by negotiation, legal and democratic means or you seize it by force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 This "right to self determination" bollocks gets right on my tits, there's no such thing. You either gain it by negotiation, legal and democratic means or you seize it by force. Bullshit, Spain have made it very clear that there's no negotiation. They should now just go home and put up with it because the Madrid elite said so ? I think the Catelonians will unilaterally declare independence based on a non binding vote and if the no voters don't want to add to the numbers then that's their problem. Its not like the UK. Catalonia is by far and away the richest region in Spain and the Spanish government knows they'll lose a legitimate referendum based on peaceful debate. Wouldn't even be close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, AUFC90 said: the Madrid elite... Catalonia is by far and away the richest region in Spain Just saying.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just saying.. That's the grand total of your reply ? [emoji23][emoji23]. Nae bother. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Welshbairn defending Spanish unionism - shock horror . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, AUFC90 said: That's the grand total of your reply ? . Nae bother. I would like to know what you mean by a non binding vote? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I would like to know what you mean by a non binding vote? Dae ye aye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: Dae ye aye. Nothing then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Nothing then. Well you wouldn't unilaterally declare independence after winning a binding referendum would you ? You already know this though.....walloper [emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 This "right to self determination" bollocks gets right on my tits, there's no such thing. You either gain it by negotiation, legal and democratic means or you seize it by force. So, as Spain are unwilling to countenance any negotiation, seizing power by force is the only option?Yes, that's definitely a better option than just acting like a democracy and allowing a referendum to take place... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Welshbairn defending Spanish unionism - shock horror . . Because I support Scottish Independence doesn't mean I have to support every global territory with a financial advantage over their neighbours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: Well you wouldn't unilaterally declare independence after winning a binding referendum would you ? You already know this though.....walloper I honestly don't understand your point. Time for bed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 24 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Democracies rely on institutions, constitutions and the rule of law to function. If Catalonians want a referendum on independence they have to persuade the rest of Spain to allow it. Same as happened for Scotland. Democracies rely on the acceptance of a fiction of representational governance by a willing population. Democracy is not a hard and fast term, neither are constitutions or laws. Laws become outdated and are challenged by protest, the enlightening of a populace (or an individual) and constitutions are added to and subtracted from continuously. The want, or need, to self-govern or independence is a consistent challenge, one that has become more and more "normal" through the breakup of political unions and empires throughout the the last few centuries, to the constitutions and subjugating laws of old. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I honestly don't understand your point. Time for bed. Have a good sleep, maybe you'll understand in the morning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Holding a poll for whether Catalonians want a referendum on independence or not would be the way to go imo. If they got a positive result it would be much more difficult for the rest of Spain to rule it out. The Catalan Government was elected almost exclusively on a mandate to hold the vote as part of a coalition. That not enough? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The Catalan Government was elected almost exclusively on a mandate to hold the vote as part of a coalition. That not enough? Mmmmm. Sounds familiar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Mmmmm. Sounds familiar Barring the obvious constitutional differences you could argue it's a stronger mandate than the snp have ever had given the range of different parties committed to it across the political spectrum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Barring the obvious constitutional differences you could argue it's a stronger mandate than the snp have ever had given the range of different parties committed to it across the political spectrum You could. But the SNP and Greens were also elected on that mandate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 You could. But the SNP and Greens were also elected on that mandate Two centre left parties that draw from similar support bases. Catalonia's coalition draws from left and right.Bear in mind I'm bit saying I think this, just that one could argue it [emoji14] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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