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SWF. Do they care?


pleslie99

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I know not many people read this part of the forum but thought I'd stick it on and ask the question anyway.

The reason I ask is that I'm involved with a ladies team at the lower end of the league structure, were having a good season and hopefully can gain promotion.

What irks me is the SWF and their couldn't care less attitude towards teams out with the swpl. There is a few points.

1. Us mere mortals got our league fixtures 2 weeks before the season started! Yep 2 weeks! Any reason for this? Nope inadequacy it seems. Turns out they apparently made a mess of the teams and ended up missing one out resulting in a league with an odd number.

2. We were given 8 days notice to play a Scottish cup tie, 8 days because again the SWF messed up the teams and 'forgot' they needed a prelim round, this was on a scheduled free week for us resulting in 4 1st team players not being available, yep we lost!

3. Teams not being allowed to move a fixture to accommodate teams and players. We had a game that suited both teams earlier in the season to be moved to a Wednesday evening as both teams had numerous girls away on the Sunday for various reasons. The SWF refused to allow the game to be moved, not only that but rejected the request on the Tuesday night, less than 24hours before we had planned to play, this after having the request in over a week previously. We played on the Sunday and both teams were severely weakened and our opponents didn't have a GK.

4. Our league has had 2 teams drop out since the start of the season. We started with an odd number so there was already a free week every round of fixtures, there is now 3 free weeks every round of fixtures.

5. On 3 occasions this season our opponents have pulled out of games, apparently they couldn't field teams. What is the SWF punishment for this? Could they not get 7 players to play? Because that is the laws of the game! We get a 3-0 win free of charge, however, firstly we would've beat these teams more than 3-0 meaning if the league went to goal difference we could've been at a disadvantage. Secondly what about our opponents in the league? They are having to battle and beat these teams but we get a win without having to do anything.

 

The SWF make a point about getting girls into football. This is a front in my opinion and they only care about the teams at the top. If they really cared about getting girls playing and keeping them in the game they would sort out the leagues/cups and make it fair to all. There shouldn't be leagues running with 9 free weeks over the course of a season like we do. If teams are folding or not fulfilling fixtures because they can't field a team then the SWF should step in, sort out a loan system or help teams merge to keep girls in the game rather than just lose them. The SWF need to be more accommodating to member clubs, by not allowing clubs to re-arrange fixtures to suit the girls that are actually playing they are damaging the integrity of the competition and the development of the girls by not allowing them to play. I understand the professionalism argument about this but just re-read point 1 and 2 above and we can go on about professionalism. No club should be forced to enter a competition like the Scottish cup. There is such a gulf in class between the top level teams and the rest, charge the minnows the compulsory entry fees to just feed the big wigs at the final!

The SWF do a lot well but there is major room for improvement otherwise a lot of girls are going to be lost to the game.

 

Thoughts?

 

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Seems a bit disorganised on the fixture front and they should accomodate teams when both sides agree the day of a fixture just to allow the game to be played. Teams dropping out due to lack of players isnt great to hear as sounds like the league would benefit from a couple more reliable sides in.

 

 

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Seems a bit disorganised on the fixture front and they should accomodate teams when both sides agree the day of a fixture just to allow the game to be played. Teams dropping out due to lack of players isnt great to hear as sounds like the league would benefit from a couple more reliable sides in.
 
 

Yep as I said they are only interested in the teams at the top.
If someone from the SWF reads this and would like a conversation about it I'm happy to entertain you. I won't hold my breath tho
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  • 3 weeks later...
Seems a bit disorganised on the fixture front and they should accomodate teams when both sides agree the day of a fixture just to allow the game to be played. Teams dropping out due to lack of players isnt great to hear as sounds like the league would benefit from a couple more reliable sides in.
 
 

Doesn't help teams when managers de register players and leave a team with only 6 players and takes them to another team only a week before the season kicks off.
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1. This is due to teams entering at the last second or pulling out after entering meaning fixtures need to be re-done. It happens every year by thei fly by night teams who are here 1/2 seasons max then vanish.

The SWPL fixtures must come out first as they tie in with international breaks set by FIFA and UEFA.

 

2. I have sympathy with that but I'm sure it was in the calendar you are provided with that says this is a potential Scottish cup date so it is your responsiblity to plan correctly. 

 

3. The fixture list is provided - you enter under the provision you are able to field a games. The SWF were correct to say no to your request. They are trying to improve the standards of the league and moving games for "various reasons" - I'm gong  to assume holidays during season, work etc - is not a valid excuse. The league takes place on a Sunday, no excuses. 

 

4. Again this is fly by night teams who can't fulfill fixtures or coaches just decide to fold teams. Teams should only enter if they are serious about completing the season and have the infrastructure in place. You can't blame the SWF for that.

 

5. See point 4. The teams are also fined £100 for non-fulfilment of the fixture, its in the rules you get given at the kick off meeting which should have been read? 

 

If if a team cannot compete on the dates given and a Sunday (when the league has ALWAYS been played) then who is actually damaging th integrity of the competition, you or the SWF? 

The fact the SWF continue to allow new teams to enter IMO is part of the problem. Far too many people setting up teams with no real idea of the commitments needed where players just want a kick about. If that's the case go and play 5s. The league, like it or not, is the equivalent of the highest divisions in the men's game. It is not a kickabout league, it is the league.

and for what it's worth, I've worked at every level in Women's football and there is 0 bias to the SWPL team ahead of SWFL. I suggest contacting your local SWPL club and see what they are doing that can use rather than moaning about it here. Bar 2 SWPL sides the rest are running on fees from players and making the best of what they have. 

Quote

3. Teams not being allowed to move a fixture to accommodate teams and players. We had a game that suited both teams earlier in the season to be moved to a Wednesday evening as both teams had numerous girls away on the Sunday for various reasons. The SWF refused to allow the game to be moved, not only that but rejected the request on the Tuesday night, less than 24hours before we had planned to play, this after having the request in over a week previously. We played on the Sunday and both teams were severely weakened and our opponents didn't have a GK.

4. Our league has had 2 teams drop out since the start of the season. We started with an odd number so there was already a free week every round of fixtures, there is now 3 free weeks every round of fixtures.

5. On 3 occasions this season our opponents have pulled out of games, apparently they couldn't field teams. What is the SWF punishment for this? Could they not get 7 players to play? Because that is the laws of the game! We get a 3-0 win free of charge, however, firstly we would've beat these teams more than 3-0 meaning if the league went to goal difference we could've been at a disadvantage. Secondly what about our opponents in the league? They are having to battle and beat these teams but we get a win without having to do anything.

 

The SWF make a point about getting girls into football. This is a front in my opinion and they only care about the teams at the top. If they really cared about getting girls playing and keeping them in the game they would sort out the leagues/cups and make it fair to all. There shouldn't be leagues running with 9 free weeks over the course of a season like we do. If teams are folding or not fulfilling fixtures because they can't field a team then the SWF should step in, sort out a loan system or help teams merge to keep girls in the game rather than just lose them. The SWF need to be more accommodating to member clubs, by not allowing clubs to re-arrange fixtures to suit the girls that are actually playing they are damaging the integrity of the competition and the development of the girls by not allowing them to play. I understand the professionalism argument about this but just re-read point 1 and 2 above and we can go on about professionalism. No club should be forced to enter a competition like the Scottish cup. There is such a gulf in class between the top level teams and the rest, charge the minnows the compulsory entry fees to just feed the big wigs at the final!

The SWF do a lot well but there is major room for improvement otherwise a lot of girls are going to be lost to the game.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

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1. This is due to teams entering at the last second or pulling out after entering meaning fixtures need to be re-done. It happens every year by thei fly by night teams who are here 1/2 seasons max then vanish.
The SWPL fixtures must come out first as they tie in with international breaks set by FIFA and UEFA.
 
2. I have sympathy with that but I'm sure it was in the calendar you are provided with that says this is a potential Scottish cup date so it is your responsiblity to plan correctly. 
 
3. The fixture list is provided - you enter under the provision you are able to field a games. The SWF were correct to say no to your request. They are trying to improve the standards of the league and moving games for "various reasons" - I'm gong  to assume holidays during season, work etc - is not a valid excuse. The league takes place on a Sunday, no excuses. 
 
4. Again this is fly by night teams who can't fulfill fixtures or coaches just decide to fold teams. Teams should only enter if they are serious about completing the season and have the infrastructure in place. You can't blame the SWF for that.
 
5. See point 4. The teams are also fined £100 for non-fulfilment of the fixture, its in the rules you get given at the kick off meeting which should have been read? 
 
If if a team cannot compete on the dates given and a Sunday (when the league has ALWAYS been played) then who is actually damaging th integrity of the competition, you or the SWF? 
The fact the SWF continue to allow new teams to enter IMO is part of the problem. Far too many people setting up teams with no real idea of the commitments needed where players just want a kick about. If that's the case go and play 5s. The league, like it or not, is the equivalent of the highest divisions in the men's game. It is not a kickabout league, it is the league.
and for what it's worth, I've worked at every level in Women's football and there is 0 bias to the SWPL team ahead of SWFL. I suggest contacting your local SWPL club and see what they are doing that can use rather than moaning about it here. Bar 2 SWPL sides the rest are running on fees from players and making the best of what they have. 
3. Teams not being allowed to move a fixture to accommodate teams and players. We had a game that suited both teams earlier in the season to be moved to a Wednesday evening as both teams had numerous girls away on the Sunday for various reasons. The SWF refused to allow the game to be moved, not only that but rejected the request on the Tuesday night, less than 24hours before we had planned to play, this after having the request in over a week previously. We played on the Sunday and both teams were severely weakened and our opponents didn't have a GK.
4. Our league has had 2 teams drop out since the start of the season. We started with an odd number so there was already a free week every round of fixtures, there is now 3 free weeks every round of fixtures.
5. On 3 occasions this season our opponents have pulled out of games, apparently they couldn't field teams. What is the SWF punishment for this? Could they not get 7 players to play? Because that is the laws of the game! We get a 3-0 win free of charge, however, firstly we would've beat these teams more than 3-0 meaning if the league went to goal difference we could've been at a disadvantage. Secondly what about our opponents in the league? They are having to battle and beat these teams but we get a win without having to do anything.
 
The SWF make a point about getting girls into football. This is a front in my opinion and they only care about the teams at the top. If they really cared about getting girls playing and keeping them in the game they would sort out the leagues/cups and make it fair to all. There shouldn't be leagues running with 9 free weeks over the course of a season like we do. If teams are folding or not fulfilling fixtures because they can't field a team then the SWF should step in, sort out a loan system or help teams merge to keep girls in the game rather than just lose them. The SWF need to be more accommodating to member clubs, by not allowing clubs to re-arrange fixtures to suit the girls that are actually playing they are damaging the integrity of the competition and the development of the girls by not allowing them to play. I understand the professionalism argument about this but just re-read point 1 and 2 above and we can go on about professionalism. No club should be forced to enter a competition like the Scottish cup. There is such a gulf in class between the top level teams and the rest, charge the minnows the compulsory entry fees to just feed the big wigs at the final!
The SWF do a lot well but there is major room for improvement otherwise a lot of girls are going to be lost to the game.
 
Thoughts?
 
 
 

Sorry but I have to disagree on a few points. Firstly, ok teams might pull out or enter at the last minute. Maybe not a lot can be done about teams pulling out but why let teams enter, there should be a cut off point for applications, not just a ‘fill your boots’ attitude just to get more teams in. The SWF could have a vetting process for new teams, make sure they have a structure in place to allow them to compete and continue and not just have someone setting up a team. So in my opinion, yes the SWF is to blame on this point.

You say we should’ve checked the calendar for fixtures, do you not think we had done this? There was no ‘potential’ Scottish cup date, it was blank. I still have said calendar so can prove this to you, again SWF’s fault.

Ok, yes we are expected to play on a Sunday I get that. My point being that the SWF want to get girls playing, well not allowing this one fixture to move stopped girls playing! Remember, the girls at this level don’t have the luxury of playing ‘full time’. They have other commitments but play with just as much passion as the girls in the SWPL. And there was a team not too long ago in the SWPL that moved a fixture to midweek! Answer that one and how it’s fair, it didn’t go unnoticed by both teams down here.

Ok, agreed not a lot can be done about teams folding but as I said the SWF should have some sort of vetting process for new teams entering. One of these teams that folded was a division 1s B team! Why are they allowed to run 2 teams if they can’t sustain it? Any punishment to the A team for this happening? The SWF could of course implement some sort of loan system to help struggling teams out and allow girls to keep playing!

We always compete on the date given, yes we asked to change a game it was rejected. We still played as we have done all season. There are some very well set up structures down this end of the league tables but being involved it definitely feels like the SWF ‘forget’ about us. Yes it’s the main competition and the highest female competition in Scotland but some at the SWF have it run in a very amateurish fashion! For you to say there is 0 bias towards the SWPL, I’m sorry, but this is not true. Come talk to any club playing in 2nd divisions and see if your opinion changes. The gulf between the ‘big girls’ and the rest is getting bigger, in my opinion there is going to be a lot of girls lost to the game unless the SWF make some changes.
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What team are you at? Do they have a youth side that could feed into the full team? 

My girl is 5 and she plays with boys mostly at her team. What age do they become separated? She's right into it at the moment and a clear path for her to play all the way up to the womans game would be great but it seems a bit muddled? Maybe that's where some of the problems lie? Boys football has a clear progression pathway set up. 

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What team are you at? Do they have a youth side that could feed into the full team? 
My girl is 5 and she plays with boys mostly at her team. What age do they become separated? She's right into it at the moment and a clear path for her to play all the way up to the womans game would be great but it seems a bit muddled? Maybe that's where some of the problems lie? Boys football has a clear progression pathway set up. 

It’s Dumbarton United I’m coaching. It is a bit crap for young girls as not many places have a full pathway up to woman’s football. They can play with the boys up until u-13 level I think which is when it becomes 11 a side then they need to find a girls team. It must be hard for young girls coming up with these challenges especially in this area with a lack of dedicated teams. DU have an u-9 and an u-11 girls teams but think that’s it until the ladies team. Morton could be an option for your wee one as they have a smashing community set up run by Laura Williamson and I’m sure they have a wide range of teams for girls starting very young right up to their ladies team who incidentally we play next week in a top of the table clash (shameless plug).
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On 27/10/2017 at 21:29, pleslie99 said:

 

Sorry but I have to disagree on a few points. Firstly, ok teams might pull out or enter at the last minute. Maybe not a lot can be done about teams pulling out but why let teams enter, there should be a cut off point for applications, not just a ‘fill your boots’ attitude just to get more teams in. The SWF could have a vetting process for new teams, make sure they have a structure in place to allow them to compete and continue and not just have someone setting up a team. So in my opinion, yes the SWF is to blame on this point.

You say we should’ve checked the calendar for fixtures, do you not think we had done this? There was no ‘potential’ Scottish cup date, it was blank. I still have said calendar so can prove this to you, again SWF’s fault.

Ok, yes we are expected to play on a Sunday I get that. My point being that the SWF want to get girls playing, well not allowing this one fixture to move stopped girls playing! Remember, the girls at this level don’t have the luxury of playing ‘full time’. They have other commitments but play with just as much passion as the girls in the SWPL. And there was a team not too long ago in the SWPL that moved a fixture to midweek! Answer that one and how it’s fair, it didn’t go unnoticed by both teams down here.

Ok, agreed not a lot can be done about teams folding but as I said the SWF should have some sort of vetting process for new teams entering. One of these teams that folded was a division 1s B team! Why are they allowed to run 2 teams if they can’t sustain it? Any punishment to the A team for this happening? The SWF could of course implement some sort of loan system to help struggling teams out and allow girls to keep playing!

We always compete on the date given, yes we asked to change a game it was rejected. We still played as we have done all season. There are some very well set up structures down this end of the league tables but being involved it definitely feels like the SWF ‘forget’ about us. Yes it’s the main competition and the highest female competition in Scotland but some at the SWF have it run in a very amateurish fashion! For you to say there is 0 bias towards the SWPL, I’m sorry, but this is not true. Come talk to any club playing in 2nd divisions and see if your opinion changes. The gulf between the ‘big girls’ and the rest is getting bigger, in my opinion there is going to be a lot of girls lost to the game unless the SWF make some changes.

You want them to encourage people to play but say they need vetting procedures? For what it's. worth the SWF have the funding for 1 full time member of staff. Who is going to run this vetting procedure. And there is a cut off date.

Fair enough, I don't have the Callander to hand so I can't challenge on that.

What players have the luxury of playing full time outside of the big 3? (Also none of Hibs are full time players). None of my players do but they accept playing football means they must have their Sundays free and we have knocked players back on availability on Sundays. The league plays on a Sunday, its very clear and has been for years. 

That team were punished as it had a knock on effect to the proposed Development League which they championed. The SWF cannot be held accountable for that. 

There is a loan system in place - you simple go to the club and ask while informing the SWF. 

You say the SWF run amateurishly while going on about your players having other commitment? Isn't that the very definition of amateur? The rules are clear that no games can be moved unless an exceptional circumstance (and no that is not work, a wedding, the team being on a night out on the Saturday, a holiday etc.)

I have coached at every level in Women's football in Scotland and there is no bias to the SWPL. As I said before, go and see what your local SWPL club is doing on more than likely a very similar budget to you. I give up at least thirty hours a week between three training session, two gym sessions, match day, admin, data analysis, video analysis, opposition preperation and session planning. This is all with no pay because I want us to be better and I have dedicated myself to the wrk  load required for a top team. That is before the other 5/6 volunteers giving the same and the 3 t every other age group at our club.

So I'm sorry don't give me the hard done by us rubbish. Self analysis, what are you doing to make your club better rather than blaming the SWF who might not always get it right but are doing everything to improve the professionalism of the game in the country,

 

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On 27/10/2017 at 22:35, the snudge said:

What team are you at? Do they have a youth side that could feed into the full team? 

My girl is 5 and she plays with boys mostly at her team. What age do they become separated? She's right into it at the moment and a clear path for her to play all the way up to the womans game would be great but it seems a bit muddled? Maybe that's where some of the problems lie? Boys football has a clear progression pathway set up. 

There is a clear progression. Girls can play up till U14 with boys then they need to play with girls. There are plenty of teams out there with good repuatations. Like you would with any boy, take her round a few teams and she where she ikea it and you are happy with the coaching she gets.

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You want them to encourage people to play but say they need vetting procedures? For what it's. worth the SWF have the funding for 1 full time member of staff. Who is going to run this vetting procedure. And there is a cut off date.
Fair enough, I don't have the Callander to hand so I can't challenge on that.
What players have the luxury of playing full time outside of the big 3? (Also none of Hibs are full time players). None of my players do but they accept playing football means they must have their Sundays free and we have knocked players back on availability on Sundays. The league plays on a Sunday, its very clear and has been for years. 
That team were punished as it had a knock on effect to the proposed Development League which they championed. The SWF cannot be held accountable for that. 
There is a loan system in place - you simple go to the club and ask while informing the SWF. 
You say the SWF run amateurishly while going on about your players having other commitment? Isn't that the very definition of amateur? The rules are clear that no games can be moved unless an exceptional circumstance (and no that is not work, a wedding, the team being on a night out on the Saturday, a holiday etc.)
I have coached at every level in Women's football in Scotland and there is no bias to the SWPL. As I said before, go and see what your local SWPL club is doing on more than likely a very similar budget to you. I give up at least thirty hours a week between three training session, two gym sessions, match day, admin, data analysis, video analysis, opposition preperation and session planning. This is all with no pay because I want us to be better and I have dedicated myself to the wrk  load required for a top team. That is before the other 5/6 volunteers giving the same and the 3 t every other age group at our club.
So I'm sorry don't give me the hard done by us rubbish. Self analysis, what are you doing to make your club better rather than blaming the SWF who might not always get it right but are doing everything to improve the professionalism of the game in the country,
 

You say you dedicate yourself over 30 hours a week? So do I and the other coaches at my club. Plus we are all involved with our kids teams etc. Just because your at a bigger club doesn’t mean you put in any more effort, care or dedicate any more time than the rest of us.
I agree with you with regards to commitments of girls, it’s played on a Sunday and that’s how it should be. My point was purely that if it suits both teams I don’t see the problem. Yes I think the SWF are a bit amateurish, but remember, all our teams are ‘amateur’ so you can’t criticise girls for having jobs etc, earning a living needs to come 1st in some (a lot) of cases.
Your opinion is that the SWF are doing a great job, mine is they are doing not such a good job. Yes there are good things going on but trust me it seems like from down here there is a bias towards the ‘big’ teams. That’s not just my opinion but the opinion of a lot of coaches in our league. We can agree to disagree on this if you wish.
On the development league thing, that seems like a non-starter and always has been. 2 development teams already folding this season, one from the mighty glasgow City, shows that the ‘A’ team will always take precendence. If city can’t keep a development team going, even after the departure of their coach to rangers, then what chance do others have?
If you don’t mind me asking what team are you involved with?
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On 30/10/2017 at 17:12, RWcoach said:

There is a clear progression. Girls can play up till U14 with boys then they need to play with girls. There are plenty of teams out there with good repuatations. Like you would with any boy, take her round a few teams and she where she ikea it and you are happy with the coaching she gets.

Can you give me an example of clear progression? A hypothetical pathway if you will.

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On 31/10/2017 at 23:03, the snudge said:

Can you give me an example of clear progression? A hypothetical pathway if you will.

U9s / Mini Kickers

U11s - U 13s (7 a side football)

U15s - U17s  (11 a side, girls cannot play with boys boys from these age groups)

Senior (16 years plus)

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7 hours ago, RWcoach said:

U9s / Mini Kickers

U11s - U 13s (7 a side football)

U15s - U17s  (11 a side, girls cannot play with boys boys from these age groups)

Senior (16 years plus)

So how many teams are there for girls at under 15s - 17s? 

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She's only 5 and a half so things might change in the future but it's good to know that there is a pathway. She's not too bad at the moment and loves it so when she gets to an age she has to separate from the boys she doesn't have to chuck it

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She's only 5 and a half so things might change in the future but it's good to know that there is a pathway. She's not too bad at the moment and loves it so when she gets to an age she has to separate from the boys she doesn't have to chuck it
Good stuff. Good to hear she's enjoying it. Hopefully she sticks at it and you find a club that looks after her
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