The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[topcat(The most tip top)]

10 hours ago, McDanger27 said:

 

Hearts and Hibs built these new stands out of necessity due to the neglect shown prior to the Taylor Report. Same can be said for Tannadice, Fir Park, Rugby Park etc. Back then Pittodrie didn’t have the alterations because the weren’t necessary and the required “improvements” were already in place. Perhaps If Pittodrie hadn’t had the seats bolted to the old terracing the same could have been said for Pittodrie and, out of necessity, perhaps we’d have had 3 new stands at the same time, and of similar proportions, rather than only the RDS. And all this before the flats appeared behind the South.

 

As a point of information there actually was seating bolted onto covered terracing for most of the space where the Wheatfield Stand now sits.

After the wheatfield went up we had bolt down seats on the uncovered away end as a stopgap solution

Hibs persisted with that arrangement on the old East Terrace until 2010

 

 

[fatshaft]

1 hour ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

Secondly, it’s less than half the distance from the city centre, even walkable at a push within an hour. Journeys of over 30mins and having to leave the centre of town at 2pm at the latest will put people off Kingsford.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the supporters bar at Loirston was going to be double the size of the one at Kingsford!

 

 

I can easily leave well after 2pm to get to Pittodrie, so no.

Westhill has more bars in vicinity than Loirston has, doesnt need as bis a supporters bar therefore. 

 

[PauloPerth]

Hearts, one of Scottish football's financial basket cases over the past couple of decades, have just borrowed/ raised/ stolen £14m to build a new stand. I'm sure I read they claim this will increase match day income by £1m a game with all the added hospitality and capacity. 

Aberdeen are a similar sized club, with a huge potential corporate market. Raise and borrow the money to build a new Main Stand (as part of an overall plan) with loads of corporate facilities and as large a capacity as can be managed. Stay with the two more modern stands and the other two older ones for a couple of seasons paying back a portion of the debt from the increased revenue.

In a few years, replace the South Stand then the Merkland a couple of seasons after that.

For 25 years very little has been done to a Pittodrie, so why the sudden desperation to do it all in one go?!

Dundee United, Hibs and Hearts all managed to redevelop their grounds over a period of time, there's no reason at all that Aberdeen can't.

[shootingboots]

3 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Hearts, one of Scottish football's financial basket cases over the past couple of decades, have just borrowed/ raised/ stolen £14m to build a new stand. I'm sure I read they claim this will increase match day income by £1m a game with all the added hospitality and capacity. 

Aberdeen are a similar sized club, with a huge potential corporate market. Raise and borrow the money to build a new Main Stand (as part of an overall plan) with loads of corporate facilities and as large a capacity as can be managed. Stay with the two more modern stands and the other two older ones for a couple of seasons paying back a portion of the debt from the increased revenue.

In a few years, replace the South Stand then the Merkland a couple of seasons after that.

For 25 years very little has been done to a Pittodrie, so why the sudden desperation to do it all in one go?!

Dundee United, Hibs and Hearts all managed to redevelop their grounds over a period of time, there's no reason at all that Aberdeen can't.

£1m a season. 

[PauloPerth]

1 minute ago, shootingboots said:

£1m a season. 

Was it? I did think £1m a game was a lot! But that would be revenue, not profit.  Does it include income away from matchdays?

[EdTheDuck]

50 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

As a point of information there actually was seating bolted onto covered terracing for most of the space where the Wheatfield Stand now sits.

After the wheatfield went up we had bolt down seats on the uncovered away end as a stopgap solution

Hibs persisted with that arrangement on the old East Terrace until 2010

 

 

Thanks, you beat me to it.

The suggestion that the benches and then seats bolted onto terracing were a suitable solution is incorrect. It was 15 years on from the original benches and football was changing fast. The construction of the RDS was in response to the growing realization that football grounds had to generate money on more than just match days and more on match days themselves. The natural progression would have been to build stands with concourses/lounges etc. in the South Stand and modernize the main stand. The King Street End as pointed out earlier had limited possibilities due to the problems with the council in the 1980s.

The (deliberate?) neglect of Pittodrie coincides with the appointment of our current Chairman. The RDS was opened in 1993, the chairman was appointed in 1994 and the “need” to leave Pittodrie was announced in 1999. Just 6 years after the RDS opened. Make of that what you will, but by 1999 the club had already run up cumulative losses of £5M for the previous 5 years (despite receiving £1.75M for Jess in 96) and it wasn’t getting better any time soon.

[betting competition]

29th January for the date the council makes a decision. 

I have my concerns about Kingsford - not that keen on travelling out that far to go to a game - it is so much easier to get to Pittodrie for me. Think traffic could be a major issue as those coming from town as not many different directions and having traveled that direction in the past due to where I lived i think Hazelhead/Northfield direction will be a bottle neck after the game and also before the game will be murder as well. The weather is a lot worse out there then next to sea as well so that is a negative although might be a bit warmer  - all in all though we really need to move as the board have been disgraceful not buying land nearby and letting Pittodrie get into poor condition. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by betting competition

[Dunty]

2 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

For one, it would be within walking distance of a significant proportion of the city of Aberdeen.

It is, but that's an assumption that everyone who lives within walking distance of Loirston will go, but will stay at home if the stadium is at Kingsford. 

Remember there was a survey where 60% said they would go less if the stadium was at Loirston. I don't believe that would ring true - the ones now saying they won't go to Kingsford, of course they will.  But again there's no evidence Loirston would increase crowds significantly, which is what they would need to do to justify £7m extra.

2 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

Secondly, it’s less than half the distance from the city centre, even walkable at a push within an hour. Journeys of over 30mins and having to leave the centre of town at 2pm at the latest will put people off Kingsford.

It's an hour's walk uphill, and an hour's walk back. The number of people walking from the city centre will be a handful at most.

And you would have to leave on or before 2pm to get there - whether walking, driving or using shuttle buses - for the same reason that if you were in Loirston and needed to get to Pittodrie for kick-off, you'd be stuck in a bottle neck of traffic.

If you get to Westhill for lunchtime on match day, you can drink in the bars then walk to the game. You don't *need* to get a shuttle bus at 2pm, that's just an option, just like you don't need to get one straight after the game if you want to stay for a few pints.

2 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

Thirdly, and most importantly, the supporters bar at Loirston was going to be double the size of the one at Kingsford!

300 extra at Loirston, but less pubs elsewhere. 

2 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

Parking issues could be alleviated by using the new school and nearby businesses (like at Kingsford) and not leaving 81(!) bus spaces free for when Celtic or Rangers come to town. We wouldn’t need the same number of shuttle buses at (£500 a go) as a lot more people would be within walking distance of the ground.

 

You've not demonstrated at all how Loirston would be worth increasing the debt by £7m. A few hundred people potentially being able to walk to the game is not going to massively increase crowds or the money Aberdeen could make from it, and the costs involved with shuttle buses and the like will be similar.

Again, I love the idea of building at Loirston, but the club are currently going with the best option in terms of being able to deliver it at Kingsford without putting us in such a debt that we suffer huge financial problems for years.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

42 minutes ago, Dunty said:

It is, but that's an assumption that everyone who lives within walking distance of Loirston will go, but will stay at home if the stadium is at Kingsford. 

Remember there was a survey where 60% said they would go less if the stadium was at Loirston. I don't believe that would ring true - the ones now saying they won't go to Kingsford, of course they will.  But again there's no evidence Loirston would increase crowds significantly, which is what they would need to do to justify £7m extra.

It's an hour's walk uphill, and an hour's walk back. The number of people walking from the city centre will be a handful at most.

And you would have to leave on or before 2pm to get there - whether walking, driving or using shuttle buses - for the same reason that if you were in Loirston and needed to get to Pittodrie for kick-off, you'd be stuck in a bottle neck of traffic.

If you get to Westhill for lunchtime on match day, you can drink in the bars then walk to the game. You don't *need* to get a shuttle bus at 2pm, that's just an option, just like you don't need to get one straight after the game if you want to stay for a few pints.

300 extra at Loirston, but less pubs elsewhere. 

You've not demonstrated at all how Loirston would be worth increasing the debt by £7m. A few hundred people potentially being able to walk to the game is not going to massively increase crowds or the money Aberdeen could make from it, and the costs involved with shuttle buses and the like will be similar.

Again, I love the idea of building at Loirston, but the club are currently going with the best option in terms of being able to deliver it at Kingsford without putting us in such a debt that we suffer huge financial problems for years.

Would there be the same local opposition at Loirston? There can’t have been many planning applications with so many locals against.

[KingswellsRed]

3 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Hearts, one of Scottish football's financial basket cases over the past couple of decades, have just borrowed/ raised/ stolen £14m to build a new stand. I'm sure I read they claim this will increase match day income by £1m a game with all the added hospitality and capacity. 

Aberdeen are a similar sized club, with a huge potential corporate market. Raise and borrow the money to build a new Main Stand (as part of an overall plan) with loads of corporate facilities and as large a capacity as can be managed. Stay with the two more modern stands and the other two older ones for a couple of seasons paying back a portion of the debt from the increased revenue.

In a few years, replace the South Stand then the Merkland a couple of seasons after that.

For 25 years very little has been done to a Pittodrie, so why the sudden desperation to do it all in one go?!

Dundee United, Hibs and Hearts all managed to redevelop their grounds over a period of time, there's no reason at all that Aberdeen can't.

We already make millions a season from corporate activities which gives us a much higher turnover than Hearts. 

[lubo_blaha]

I can easily leave well after 2pm to get to Pittodrie, so no.
Westhill has more bars in vicinity than Loirston has, doesnt need as bis a supporters bar therefore. 
 

You can’t compare you getting to Pittodrie from Westhill to 2000 odd cars and buses trying to get to Kingsford in the same direction.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Dunty is strongly reminiscent of the accounts on Kickback who were always banging on about the advantages of Murrayfield and Tynecastle not being fit for purpose and turned out to be Public Relations people working for Chris Robinson.

 

[fatshaft]

2 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

 

You can’t compare you getting to Pittodrie from Westhill to 2000 odd cars and buses trying to get to Kingsford in the same direction.

 

At Kingsford they're not all travelling in the same direction, they come from all points, whereas everything funnels to Pittodrie because there is the sea on one side. I made a drawing a few pages back to illustrate.

 

So yes, you're right, though I think you're confusing which is the bigger problem?

[Dunty]

3 hours ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Would there be the same local opposition at Loirston? There can’t have been many planning applications with so many locals against.

 

There was opposition - but not a group that were actively out campaigning, getting signatures, delivering leaflets, posting scare stories and encouraging everyone to object. I tend to think if this gets rejected we'll see similar groups pop up wherever it gets built - including even a rebuilt Pittodrie. They can't object to a stadium already there but they sure as hell can kick up a fuss over a new one.

A lot of older people are now on social media that would never have touched it before, which allows NIMBYs to become more actively involved.

Interesting that the NKS group have consistently pushed for Loirston as the site, then state their reasons for objections as ones Loirston/Cove residents would have. The epitome of nimbyisn.

[Dunty]

1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Dunty is strongly reminiscent of the accounts on Kickback who were always banging on about the advantages of Murrayfield and Tynecastle not being fit for purpose and turned out to be Public Relations people working for Chris Robinson.

 

The thing about Tynecastle though, was Chris Robinson's motivation not to eradicate Hearts' huge debt? Was it not £30m at the time and Hearts had a deal with Cala Homes to get £20m for Tynecastle?

He was wrong about the Tynecastle main stand but ultimately the club went into administration, something he may have avoided had he got his wish to move to Murrayfield. Not for a moment saying you should have moved there - just seeing things from his point of view.

Different story with Pittodrie. We're not in debt. But a 20,000 stadium on that footprint isn't going to happen. The club are actually doing the sensible thing which is sell the land, move the stadium to a cheaper site, build a better stadium and make the club more money in future.

Even if an architect came along and said "Here, knock all this down, do this, build these four stands, there's your 20,000 stadium" it's extremely unlikely we'd ever be able to afford it, the same way if Ann Budge was tasked with building four new stands instead of one you wouldn't have been able to afford it either. And the stay at Pittodrie brigade know this but would rather put their fingers in their ears and say "not going if it's next to a bypass".

[1320Lichtie]

At Kingsford they're not all travelling in the same direction, they come from all points, whereas everything funnels to Pittodrie because there is the sea on one side. I made a drawing a few pages back to illustrate.

 

So yes, you're right, though I think you're confusing which is the bigger problem?

 

The fact you still don’t seem to understand this makes me want to stab myself in the eyes so I don’t have to read you say the above or WANKS again.

 

f**k sake.

[Elixir]

Can't wait for this to get delayed yet again. 

[fatshaft]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

The fact you still don’t seem to understand this makes me want to stab myself in the eyes so I don’t have to read you say the above or WANKS again.

 

f**k sake.

I live past Westhill, I go to Pittodrie, I was brought up in the area, I drive these roads all the time. I'm sorry my opinion based on my daily experiences here count for less than yours from 60 miles away. I bow to your superior knowledge of MY back yard, you arrogant c**t 

Edited December 21, 2017 by fatshaft

[Daydream]

 
The fact you still don’t seem to understand this makes me want to stab myself in the eyes so I don’t have to read you say the above or WANKS again.
 
f**k sake.

I live past Westhill, I go to Pittodrie, I was brought up in the area, I drive these roads all the time. I'm sorry my opinion based on my daily experiences here count for less than yours from 60 miles away. I bow to your superior knowledge of MY back yard, you arrogant c**t 

Guid TELT

[Darren]

10 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Raise and borrow the money to build a new Main Stand (as part of an overall plan) with loads of corporate facilities and as large a capacity as can be managed. Stay with the two more modern stands and the other two older ones for a couple of seasons paying back a portion of the debt from the increased revenue.

How are they going to do that? Build over a public road and knock down a few houses?