Fullerene Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 34 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Can’t imagine anyone seeing that as a great victory tbh. Mind you with the deliberate splitters and the jaundiced bile from the MSM neither could a result like that be seen as a significant defeat. When Labour lost heavily in 1983, Tony Benn celebrated the fact that they had at least identified their true core support, the people who would always support them through thick and thin. When you're sitting at the bottom of a deep well, the only way you can go is up! Ever the optimist I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: You're right, and that's why this vacuum that has been created in the centre of British politics is so dangerous and why it's so frustrating that Labour seem to have disappeared somewhere up their own wee socialist arsehole. The UKIP-isation of British politics is gathering force and Labour swinging to the left isn't doing anything to stop it. Brexit is nothing more than a right-wing coup, and it's shameful that Corbyn has helped move it merrily along. Bob you clearly know nothing about socialism or political economy. Labour has moved to the left because nearly 40 years of neoliberalism has entreched inequality to levels where millions of people understand that they will only avert the decline in their communities via radical politicial change. Edited February 19, 2019 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: You're right, and that's why this vacuum that has been created in the centre of British politics is so dangerous and why it's so frustrating that Labour seem to have disappeared somewhere up their own wee socialist arsehole. The UKIP-isation of British politics is gathering force and Labour swinging to the left isn't doing anything to stop it. Brexit is nothing more than a right-wing coup, and it's shameful that Corbyn has helped move it merrily along. Despite all the msm rhetoric, I really see no evidence of the current Labour party being in any way "lurched left" etc. Yes, they certainly have ideas which could be described as left leaning, however when we see the effects of privatisation on the likes of English water, the railways, energy suppliers etc, then it actually makes complete sense to look to re-nationalise which would just bring us back into step with the majority of our European neighbours and is in no way any sort of "communist" , "reds under the bed" strategy. We could also mention the PFI or outsourcing to the Carillions and Interserve's of this world to see what a complete and utter shambles that was. I also believe that raising corporation tax back to "normal" levels and increasing taxation for higher earners, again, back to "normal" levels is just, well, normal, as opposed to being seen as yet another "marxist" agenda. I fear many have become brainwashed into believing that "normal" is actually "far left"................ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 There is no such thing as "normal". Everything is ideological. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Detournement said: There is no such thing as "normal". Everything is ideological. Very deep but probably very true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 It's fairly straight forward but a great deal of energy is expended on making it seem otherwise. Centrists are just people who are for the prevailing ideology. They can be as extreme in their views as the most rabid people on the left or right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Centrism is a gateway drug for fascism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said: Exactly. There is absolutely NO appetite for a socialist government in the UK, and there never has been for 70 years. There are many aspects of socialism which are entirely commendable, if not desirable, but to gain power they'll have to be combined with a moderate, centrist approach. At the moment Labour are heading for a long spell in opposition, which is doubly shameful because of the swing to the right that the Tories are taking. To be fair the more right wing Tories are no populists either. It's not surprising that May, like messrs Howard and Hague before her, failed to gain an outright win in a general election. Only the more centrist David Cameron has managed to win a majority for the Conservatives in over 25 years. If the next election is May and Corbyn again, it's highly likely that three things will happen. Turnout will plummet, another hung parliament will occur, and you'll probably see some smaller parties making gains including the Lib Dems and the SNP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 McDonnell giving it the soft regrettable sorrow act today, all fake concern and empathetic, ‘’it’s all a huge listening exercise for us’’. Aye well that’s me convinced pal[emoji849]. In reality he would fuckin stab any one of them, right between the eyes! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: McDonnell giving it the soft regrettable sorrow act today, all fake concern and empathetic, ‘’it’s all a huge listening exercise for us’’. Aye well that’s me convinced pal. In reality he would fuckin stab any one of them, right between the eyes! As Anne Widecombe once said of Michael Howard, "There's something of the night about him." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Is there some archive of these numerous alleged anti-Semitic incidents by Labour Party members? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 McDonnell giving it the soft regrettable sorrow act today, all fake concern and empathetic, ‘’it’s all a huge listening exercise for us’’. Aye well that’s me convinced pal[emoji849]. In reality he would fuckin stab any one of them, right between the eyes! It’s class because it’s so obvious your hatred of McDonnell and Corbyn doesn’t stem from anything other than their support for the boys in green over the water. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 It’s class because it’s so obvious your hatred of McDonnell and Corbyn doesn’t stem from anything other than their support for the boys in green over the water. Glentoran? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: Is there some archive of these numerous alleged anti-Semitic incidents by Labour Party members? Jennie Formby gave the PLP full access to all the data about AS complaints, investigations and actions taken. The PLP refused to with engage with it because it proves what we all know. That it's a fairly small problem (still a serious one obviously). I keep on reading about racist attacks on Berger. We never see examples of them though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Detournement said: Jennie Formby gave the PLP full access to all the data about AS complaints, investigations and actions taken. The PLP refused to with engage with it because it proves what we all know. That it's a fairly small problem (still a serious one obviously). I keep on reading about racist attacks on Berger. We never see examples of them though. Whether there's many from Labour party members is in serious doubt, but I don't think it's a question about her getting them or not. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30545824 Edited February 19, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 All defections since 1832 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 It's not really since it ignores Ramsay McDonald and the other Judases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, virginton said: ...and still lost the election by a comfortable margin against a robotic incompetent. The biggest issue however is probably not the ideology (which when put together as a package is rarely as popular as standalone policies) but rather its messenger. The mumbleclown attracts devoted loyalty from his bizarre minority cult, but is generally unpopular in the country. Yougov polling finds that fully 50% of the population have a negative view of him - the prospect of putting that incompetent mumbleclown in charge of anything is the obstacle that Labour will never be able to overcome; yet his leadership is unassailable within the ever-narrowing base of his own party. It's a recipe for a decades in the political wilderness. Well, given your long record of outbursts, and meltdowns on any subject under the sun on here, I'd be tempted to agree that you would indeed know a thing or two about what constitutes a bizarre minority cult, except on this occasion you're wrong. The recipe for decades in the political wilderness is for the leader, any leader, of either of the 2 primary political parties to just turn round and say..... "...Well, yes, we know that you the public were promised that the result of the referendum would be honoured, but now we're not going to do that....." What's going on now is 'high politics', and low calculation. Certain things have to be played out. For me Corbyn is doing OK so far. I went for Remain, and still reckon things are going to be OK. Edited February 19, 2019 by beefybake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Britain Elects @britainelects Westminster voting intention: CON: 32% LAB: 26% IG: 10% LDEM: 9% UKIP: 6% GRN: 4% via @SkyData, 19 Feb IG: Independent Group Well, that's us fucked forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Detournement said: There is no such thing as "normal". Everything is ideological. Not quite. Normal is defined by whoever is in charge and can then define the narrative. Most recently that has been the Conservatives. An elected Labour UK government can define the new Normal and if it moves left then Normal moves Left. (Similarly if a government moves Right then Normal moves Right). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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