Israel lobby v Corbyn

[LongTimeLurker]

26 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Maybe i'm being dim, but what's nagorno karabakh got to do with Israel? 

Although people on this thread make out Israel is all powerful if Hamas find a way to use relatively low budget asymmetric warfare such as swarms of missiles to tip the strategic scales, Israel could be donald ducked like NKR was by drones because they have almost no strategic depth.

Saying Iron Dome is 90% effective is similar to Borat's Kazakh anthem removing 80% of solid human waste from the swimming pool if the other 10% has the range to hit Tel Aviv. What Israel does next at that point is unlikely to be pretty...

Edited May 15, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[NotThePars]

20 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Do Hamas respect LGBT rights and use the appropriate pronouns these days I haven't been following? I never received an answer on whether you can wear a yarmulke openly in Gaza City. Do the virtue signallers have something they are being willfully blind to in all of this?

Maybe both sides need to stop firing projectiles at each other and vote in their peace and two state solution supporting political parties rather than their extremists and there are no easy wave a magic wand and everyone will turn into quiche eating Guardian readers solutions on all of this.

Israel is unlikely to be sustainable militarily long term so the current trajectory of Hamas and a Likud backed by Revelations believing American Evangelicals setting the agenda is leading to something catastrophic but go on feeling better about yourself by only being able to find fault with half of that equation.

One side has vastly superior weaponry and substantial international backing than the other. Trying to both sides this is fully justifying the horrifying repression of a people who don't deserve to see their homes levelled and their lives destroyed even if you're trying to justify it on horrendous grounds of woke imperialism.

[LongTimeLurker]

I am not trying to justify anything and I am opposed to both Hamas and Likud. It would be much better if Fatah and Labour had not been eclipsed electorally.

[NotThePars]

16 minutes ago, coprolite said:

The wages of inappropriate pronouns is death

Liberal woke imperialism is a disease. The same people that toss themselves off at the IDF supporting vegans and having all female death squads while they drone strike children.

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Although people on this thread make out Israel is all powerful if Hamas find a way to use relatively low budget asymmetric warfare such as swarms of missiles to tip the strategic scales, Israel could be donald ducked like NKR was by drones. Saying Iron Dome is 90% effective is similar to Borat's Kazakh anthem removing 80% of solid human waste from the swimming pool if the other 10% has the range to hit Tel Aviv. What Israel does next at that point is unlikely to be pretty...

My guess Is that swarms of missiles and drones of the sort and in the numbers available to Turkey (a regional power) are unlikely to be available to Hamas. Unless they're being supplied by bigger allies of course but that would be a major escalation in itself. 

Israel's main defensive tactice is oppression and impoverishment. It's effective but is inhumane and against international norms. Whataboutery about arab culture, which has its problems, won't change that. 

No idea what you're dribbling about Borat and swimming pools for. 

[LongTimeLurker]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

My guess Is that swarms of missiles and drones of the sort and in the numbers available to Turkey (a regional power) are unlikely to be available to Hamas.... 

How about Hezbollah who have a direct supply chain to Tehran via Iraq and Syria? If Hamas demonstrates that Iron Dome is vulnerable there are others that can use the tactic even more effectively.

Suicide bombings during the Intifadah would have made Israel unsustainable in the absence of drastic measures like the wall they put in around the West Bank. Eventually Likud's extremist approach leads to a complete bloodbath as does that of Hamas. People who apply a good guy bad guy narrative to this issue are dangerous if they start to have influence.

That applies to those in Washington who are willfully blind to the faults of Likud as well as people like Corbyn who were and are willfully blind to the faults of Hamas.

[LongTimeLurker]

stop building strawmans if you want to engage in discussion

[Miguel Sanchez]

Can I have a shot?

Can't criticise Israel for bombing Palestinians if there aren't any Palestinians left to bomb

[LongTimeLurker]

 

3 minutes ago, Pato said:

My main aim here is getting you to log off tbh

Tough luck then as this is a Scottish football board that isn't exclusive to one narrow world view. 

[LongTimeLurker]

That says more about your prejudices than anything else. Perfectly calm at this end. More bemused than anything else that people who are clearly well to the left of centre can look at what's happening and not see socially conservative Islamism as part of the problem as well. Richard Dawkins ya bass!

[oneteaminglasgow]

Hamas have some major faults, so it's impossible to say if shooting Palestinian children in the face is bad or not.

[LongTimeLurker]

Just now, oneteaminglasgow said:

Hamas have some major faults, so it's impossible to say if shooting Palestinian children in the face is bad or not.

If that's aimed at me where have I said that's OK? My posture is that both sides need to stop firing projectiles at each other, stop voting in extremists that favour military solutions and instead start working seriously towards a two-state resolution to the conflict on something close to the 1967 borders as per UN resolutions. 

[coprolite]

46 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

How about Hezbollah who have a direct supply chain to Tehran via Iraq and Syria? If Hamas demonstrates that Iron Dome is vulnerable there are others that can use the tactic even more effectively.

Suicide bombings during the Intifadah would have made Israel unsustainable in the absence of drastic measures like the wall they put in around the West Bank. Eventually Likud's extremist approach leads to a complete bloodbath as does that of Hamas. People who apply a good guy bad guy narrative to this issue are dangerous if they start to have influence.

That applies to those in Washington who are willfully blind to the faults of Likud as well as people like Corbyn who were and are willfully blind to the faults of Hamas.

You're probably right. Escalating the situation from some local riots to a full scale military massacre will undoubtedly stabilise the region. y

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, Pato said:

You're bemused because people don't think that pork being haram....

You do realise that's something Judaism and Islam actually agree on? I invoked Richard Dawson for a reason. Kind of why I see both Likud and Hamas as being at fault and don't see it as good guy bad guy.

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, Pato said:

Oh you'll never say it's OK, that wouldn't suit your plausibly deniable style...

Welcome to my ignore list.

[LongTimeLurker]

7 minutes ago, coprolite said:

You're probably right. Escalating the situation from some local riots to a full scale military massacre will undoubtedly stabilise the region. y

I am opposed to what both Likud and Hamas are doing so you are not responding to what I have actually written and what I actually believe should happen. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

4 minutes ago, Pato said:

what was the Richard Dawkins thing about btw I couldn't figure that out

You're probably better with "God is not great: why religion poisons everything" by Christopher Hitchens tbh. Or maybe  "The Human Universe" by Prof Brian Cox. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

Dunno. Good books though! 

[LongTimeLurker]

 

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

Tough luck then as this is a Scottish football board that isn't exclusive to one narrow world view. 

It's getting very close to it.