CarrbridgeSaintee Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 5 hours ago, diegomarahenry said: The SNP under Salmond looked like it was looking out for Scotland, initially against the last Labour government dipping the pockets of tax payers again and again, then the conservatives push towards right wing issues. He knew how to win votes and rarely was ever bettered by a Westminster MP. On leaving office, he took money from a Kremlin media organisation so lost all credibility to be a politician again, it completely stained his character. Whether it was just a way to earn honest money, it looked like he sold his soul to a foreign government with a history of interference. The SNP then took on a role of a nanny state, rather than looking out for Scotland, it was implementing policy on to the population for our own good and that’s where it failed. I agree with a lot of the policies they tried to implement but the way they went about it was dreadful. You can’t sell your house with a gas boiler in it, the hate crime bill, so woolly, it was unworkable from day one… they fell in to obvious PR traps like the gender recognition bill. If anyone believes that, by chance, while that bill is going through, a prisoner with an ill fitting wig and their dick visible through pink leggings on the front page of the newspapers then I have a bridge I can sell them. The bottle return scheme, left hung out to dry by trying to force it through before all details were finalised. All things that wouldn’t have happened under Salmond. His Alba party is a left wing, Scottish version of the reform party. When he thought he’d be kingmaker during the no confidence vote, Reagan was sidelined and he put himself front and centre, despite being unelected, and made himself look a prize fanny. I agree with most of your points. Salmond is a very capable politician.. sharp as a tack, knows how to keep a party strong and together, and is a great strategist. His ego lets him down though, hence the RT thing and other personal failures. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 If Salmond is such a capable politician now come he’s ended up in charge of a shower of swivel eyed lunatics who regularly lose their deposits in council by-elections? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 1 hour ago, BFTD said: "I may not agree with their views on independence, but I've always had a lot of time for Sillars/Salmond/Campbell/Cherry/Pol Pol/Regan, and the SNP are all the poorer for their absence" - every Unionist ever. Same folk who were outwardly all in favour of Kate Forbes assuming the mantle of SNP leader and FM, talking her up to the high heavens, despite otherwise spending every waking second of their lives talking down Scotland, the SNP, the Scots Government, and making it clear they'd never countenance voting SNP or for Indi come hell or highwater. I mean, I take a passing interest in Tory Leadership free-for-alls, but only because I'm keen to see just how depraved and unhinged it'll get. I still think every single one of them is an irredeemable c**t, and I couldn't care less who they elect, never mind presuming to tell them what would be the best option for the future of both their party and the UK when I've never voted Tory in my life, never will, and when nothing would please me more than seeing the dissolution of their beloved Union. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 7 hours ago, diegomarahenry said: The SNP under Salmond looked like it was looking out for Scotland, initially against the last Labour government dipping the pockets of tax payers again and again, then the conservatives push towards right wing issues. He knew how to win votes and rarely was ever bettered by a Westminster MP. On leaving office, he took money from a Kremlin media organisation so lost all credibility to be a politician again, it completely stained his character. Whether it was just a way to earn honest money, it looked like he sold his soul to a foreign government with a history of interference. The SNP then took on a role of a nanny state, rather than looking out for Scotland, it was implementing policy on to the population for our own good and that’s where it failed. I agree with a lot of the policies they tried to implement but the way they went about it was dreadful. You can’t sell your house with a gas boiler in it, the hate crime bill, so woolly, it was unworkable from day one… they fell in to obvious PR traps like the gender recognition bill. If anyone believes that, by chance, while that bill is going through, a prisoner with an ill fitting wig and their dick visible through pink leggings on the front page of the newspapers then I have a bridge I can sell them. The bottle return scheme, left hung out to dry by trying to force it through before all details were finalised. All things that wouldn’t have happened under Salmond. His Alba party is a left wing, Scottish version of the reform party. When he thought he’d be kingmaker during the no confidence vote, Reagan was sidelined and he put himself front and centre, despite being unelected, and made himself look a prize fanny. A left wing version of Reform? Surely Reform are objectionable because of their right wing agitprop? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 On 10/09/2024 at 13:35, ICTChris said: There's a BBC documentary being shown this week about this, although Salmond has come out and said people shouldn't watch all of it because the BBC are institutionally biased against Scottish independence and turned it into a show about the "psychodrama of his feud with Sturgeon". He's also criticised Humza Yousef had criticised Salmond for "abusing his power" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv10ey001o One thing about all this is, I can't really work out what the major policy differences are between them. Salmond and Alba criticise the self-ID stuff but that seems to be more a position of convenience for them. The only real trigger for it all seems to be that Salmond felt 'betrayed' when he lost his Westminster seat in 2017 and that Sturgeon was annoyed when he started doing a show on Russia Today after he lost his seat. Self ID was a disastrous own goal by the SNP, borne of an arrogance of too long in power. That was when the guy ropes were taken out of The Big Tent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 53 minutes ago, adamntg said: Self ID was a disastrous own goal by the SNP, borne of an arrogance of too long in power. That was when the guy ropes were taken out of The Big Tent. Really nice to have you join the debate. Utter pish, but good to have you here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, adamntg said: Self ID was a disastrous own goal by the SNP, borne of an arrogance of too long in power. That was when the guy ropes were taken out of The Big Tent. First consultation period was 2016. 9 years after the SNP first formed government, and 5 after first being elected as a majority government. In order to reach consultation stage it's self evident the idea will have been considered from long prior to 2016. In fact, if memory serves, the reason it got off the ground shortly after the 2016 SGE is precisely because it had already been a manifesto pledge of the SNP in 2011, and proponents were understandably miffed we'd been through an entire electoral cycle with no sign of it materialising. It was also on the cards at Westminster, a law in several other countries by that point, and still overwhelmingly the preference of every party bar the Tories when the Bill passed in 2022. The idea that Self-ID was borne out of a government too long in power is clearly, demonstrably baseless. Edited September 11 by Boo Khaki 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 11 hours ago, Wee Bully said: Really nice to have you join the debate. Utter pish, but good to have you here It’s the most toxic, divisive subject going, as you’ve ably demonstrated. Why a party with the single aim of securing independence should choose that as a hill to die on, I just don’t understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Always curious about which other groups should go on the bonfire if it would be likely to secure independence. I can think of a few that might persuade more on the right to join the cause. Could've been the difference between a Yes or No vote in 2014. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 3 hours ago, adamntg said: It’s the most toxic, divisive subject going, as you’ve ably demonstrated. Why a party with the single aim of securing independence should choose that as a hill to die on, I just don’t understand. The right wing of the UK has made it toxic - not the SNP. As stated, it was fully supported by all parties at Holyrood with the exception of the Tories (even then a couple of them voted in favour). The SNP cannot be a single issue party whilst also the party of government. They get horrendous stick from opponents and the media for being too focused on independence. From a media perspective they can't win. Some of their other policies - particularly relating to climate change also drive the Daily Mail and its readership into a frenzy - should they just back out of that too because it's a bit controversial. When zealots like Rees Mogg and Rowling are getting upset, you're probably doing more long term good than harm given that these people are absolute arseholes. They're very loud arseholes though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Just reread the first half a dozen or so pages of this thread. Radger the Badger The Chlamydia Kid Steve 55 Willie Miller's Moustache The Kincardine Pep Banana Detournement Not the Pars Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier All gone to the great Politics Forum in the sky. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) On 12/09/2024 at 15:04, HTG said: The right wing of the UK has made it toxic - not the SNP. As stated, it was fully supported by all parties at Holyrood with the exception of the Tories (even then a couple of them voted in favour). The SNP cannot be a single issue party whilst also the party of government. They get horrendous stick from opponents and the media for being too focused on independence. From a media perspective they can't win. Some of their other policies - particularly relating to climate change also drive the Daily Mail and its readership into a frenzy - should they just back out of that too because it's a bit controversial. When zealots like Rees Mogg and Rowling are getting upset, you're probably doing more long term good than harm given that these people are absolute arseholes. They're very loud arseholes though. I don’t agree that it’s a right/left issue and characterising it as such is just a way of avoiding answering awkward questions on women’s rights and the protection of children and adolescents. Personally, I think the idea that someone can claim to literally change their sex through surgery and cosplaying what they imagine a woman is to be a sexist and regressive philosophy. No more feminine men or masculine women, just people who have somehow been “born in the wrong body”. I don’t believe in souls, gendered or otherwise. Perhaps the SNP aren’t the only party to have fallen for this nonsense, but they fell hard and they doubled down and kept digging until the logical conclusion of their theory fell apart with Isla Bryson. edit : lol, seems my suggestion that humans cannot literally change their sex is a little unpopular. Edited September 14 by adamntg -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 It’s the Emperor’s New Clothes for the 21st century. In my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 30 minutes ago, adamntg said: I don’t agree that it’s a right/left issue and characterising it as such is just a way of avoiding answering awkward questions on women’s rights and the protection of children and adolescents. Personally, I think the idea that someone can claim to literally change their sex through surgery and cosplaying what they imagine a woman is to be a sexist and regressive philosophy. No more feminine men or masculine women, just people who have somehow been “born in the wrong body”. I don’t believe in souls, gendered or otherwise. Perhaps the SNP aren’t the only party to have fallen for this nonsense, but they fell hard and they doubled down and kept digging until the logical conclusion of their theory fell apart with Isla Bryson. What exactly “fell apart” with Isla Bryson? If you could point me to the part of the GRA which would have been affected, I would be grateful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 50 minutes ago, Cheese said: Just reread the first half a dozen or so pages of this thread. Radger the Badger The Chlamydia Kid Steve 55 Willie Miller's Moustache The Kincardine Pep Banana Detournement Not the Pars Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier All gone to the great Politics Forum in the sky. P&b’s preeminent blairite is still on the go. @Highlandmagar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHF-23 Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 58 minutes ago, Cheese said: Just reread the first half a dozen or so pages of this thread. Radger the Badger The Chlamydia Kid Steve 55 Willie Miller's Moustache The Kincardine Pep Banana Detournement Not the Pars Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier All gone to the great Politics Forum in the sky. Can't believe you missed out BawWatchin there. Surely can't be many posters to be punted twice in 6 months for anti semitism 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 2 minutes ago, GHF-23 said: Can't believe you missed out BawWatchin there. Surely can't be many posters to be punted twice in 6 months for anti semitism Ah yes, forgot about him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 18 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: P&b’s preeminent blairite is still on the go. @Highlandmagar I'm hanging in there! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 I thought it was a different poster tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Wee Bully said: What exactly “fell apart” with Isla Bryson? If you could point me to the part of the GRA which would have been affected, I would be grateful. The idea that a man can literally become a woman and be entitled to be treated as such by the law. Edit : I’m aware that GRA itself didn’t specifically affect this. Edited September 12 by adamntg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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