Pyramid 2019/2020

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

I once sat in the sfa board room wihh Gordon Smith as part of the Association of Tartan Army Clubs meeting circa 2007.

Obviously as a Rose fan I was keen to know how Scottish Cup entry would work as it was new then.

He was genuinely excited about it and hoped it would eventually lead to a pyramid. I had time for that despite at the time not being too bothered about it as the Rose were on top of their game back then anyway.

Turned out to be a masterstroke for the pyramid as it gave a lot of teams a taste of playing the big boys.

[Footballfirst]

I've been looking for confirmation, from an official source, that there is no scenario by which Dalbeattie could be relegated as the "2nd bottom" side in the LL.

The club itself announced this evening, in a statement about the departure of their manager, that "The club will look to appoint a replacement as soon as possible in order to give the new manager time to prepare for the new season of the Lowland League which begins in July.", so it does appear that the club has been told that it can't be relegated.

https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/dalbeattiestarfc/news/club-statement-2422706.html

Edited May 2, 2019 by Footballfirst

[LongTimeLurker]

The parts of the rule that haven't been discussed so much on here are highlighted:

http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Scottish-Lowland-Football-League-Rules-Version-10.pdf

Admission to Membership of the League will be by (a) written application until the maximum of sixteen (16) clubs is reached or (b) by promotion or relegation. Applications must be received in accordance with procedures published by the Board on the SFA and SLFL website at least three months before the closing date for applications. Applications will be considered by the Board of the League whose decision regarding admission is absolute and final. Thereafter, unless a vacancy arises through resignation or expulsion of a Club from the League,admission will only be through relegation from the SPFL as detailed in Pyramid Play-Off Rules in appendix1 or promotion from either the East of Scotland Football League or South of Scotland Football League. A play-off match will take place between the champion clubs of The East of Scotland Football League and The South of Scotland Football League, if both clubs meet the required criteria, to replace the bottom club in The Scottish Lowland Football League. The bottom club will be relegated to the League which will have been decided by the Boards of the three leagues prior to the start of each season. If only one of the Champion Clubs meet the criteria they will be promoted automatically. If neither of the Champion Clubs meets the criteria there will be no promotion...

It's the Board not the clubs that get to decide on applications, and that means if second bottom were to be relegated by Cove being promoted and an EoS champion being licensed because the interpretation of the rule is that the vacancy created by the expulsion of a club gets filled by written application (this isn't clearly stated leaving the rule ambiguous in terms of wording but is implied), nobody could contest a decision made by the board that Dalbeattie Star would get straight back in because their decision on the matter is "absolute and final".

I strongly suspect the Board will be guided by the wishes of their member clubs that Whitehill Welfare should have been viewed as second bottom this season and that means Whitehill Welfare would only fail to get straight back in through the application process in the Cove and EoS champion promoted  scenario where they would either be competing for one place with Dalbeattie Star on application or there is no vacancy left to be filled depending on preferred rule interpretation. Time will tell.

Edited May 3, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[GNU_Linux]

Good afternoon all
 
As you are all aware, discussions have been ongoing for some time around the introduction of additional leagues at tier 6. Unfortunately it has not been possible to find consensus across all parties.   The compromise proposal put forward at the last PWG meeting has not found support.
 
Accordingly, there will be no change to the current Tier 6 format for the 2019/20 season.
 
The SJFA have agreed to alter their disciplinary rules to mirror the JJP and will proceed on this basis from the start of season 2019/20.   The Scottish FA will audit the arrangements put in place by the SJFA.
 
The Pyramid Working Group will be re-convened during next season.
 
We are grateful for all the feedback at PWG meetings and directly from clubs at the league general meetings.   As well as the geographical imbalance at Tier 6 we are aware that there is uncertainty about the geographical boundary between the Highland League and the Lowland League which is something which can be addressed at a future PWG meeting.
 
The PWG meetings identified that for those leagues participating at Tier 6 it should be the top division within that league which is formally part of Tier 6 – divisions below that will not be Tier 6.  The East of Scotland Football League will be moving from three parallel conferences to a structure which has one division at the top.   It is that new top division which will form part  of Tier 6 for Season 2019/20.    Therefore the number of Tier 6 clubs for Season 2019/20 will be 32 (16 from EoSFL and 16 of the 18 clubs in the SoSFL).   Ultimately Tier 6 might comprise approximately 64 clubs and this would be a manageable number for the Scottish FA in terms of the JPP process
 

[superbigal]

1 hour ago, GNU_Linux said:

 

 

 

Basically the PWG has been found to be a complete waste of time 

[GNU_Linux]

First signs of reaction out west as Clydebank have released a statement.

 

https://www.clydebankfc.com/club-statement-pyramid/

 

 

The club received the following email, confirming plans to be part of the Scottish FA Pyramid at Tier 6 from season 2019/20 will now not go ahead.   

“Good afternoon all

 

As you are all aware, discussions have been ongoing for some time around the introduction of additional leagues at tier 6. Unfortunately it has not been possible to find consensus across all parties. The compromise proposal put forward at the last PWG meeting has not found support.

 

Accordingly, there will be no change to the current Tier 6 format for the 2019/20 season.

 

The SJFA have agreed to alter their disciplinary rules to mirror the JJP and will proceed on this basis from the start of season 2019/20. The Scottish FA will audit the arrangements put in place by the SJFA.

 

The Pyramid Working Group will be re-convened during next season.

 

We are grateful for all the feedback at PWG meetings and directly from clubs at the league general meetings. As well as the geographical imbalance at Tier 6 we are aware that there is uncertainty about the geographical boundary between the Highland League and the Lowland League which is something which can be addressed at a future PWG meeting.

 

The PWG meetings identified that for those leagues participating at Tier 6 it should be the top division within that league which is formally part of Tier 6 – divisions below that will not be Tier 6. The East of Scotland Football League will be moving from three parallel conferences to a structure which has one division at the top. It is that new top division which will form part of Tier 6 for Season 2019/20. Therefore the number of Tier 6 clubs for Season 2019/20 will be 32 (16 from EoSFL and 16 of the 18 clubs in the SoSFL). Ultimately Tier 6 might comprise approximately 64 clubs and this would be a manageable number for the Scottish FA in terms of the JPP process”

 

Clearly, this position has important implications for the club and the Clydebank FC board of directors will meet on Tuesday to discuss this further.

 

In the meantime, if you have any questions please feel free to speak to any director at tomorrow’s game at home to Troon.

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

[morley]

This email from the SFA will be pored over but for me gives deliberate guidance to the PWG going forward meaning: 

1. By specifically referencing the EoSFL (the top league of it) and not the east region in general, means the EoSFL is recognised by the sfa as the exclusive and only pyramid league there can be in the East at least at tier 6.

2. The sfa want the SoSL to continue to have an exclusive place at tier 6 and equal in size to the East tier 6 or any other regional tier 6. 

3. Calling out there can only be 32 more clubs at tier 6, combined with actually spelling out the current split 16 each between EoSFL and SoSL, is a clear invite for the creation of both a West and Highland tier 6 league by someone with 16 in each to fill that remaining 32 places. Otherwise what was the point in that part of the statement as that level of detail  wasn't really needed otherwise. 

4. Stating only the top division of each regions leaugue is to be considered tier 6, means there can't be overlapping geographical leagues at tier 6. Leaves it open for geographical overlap at tier 7 or below. 

5. Same statement as point 4 above, also means an important point of clarity from the sfa that its a specific league table rather than  a whole organisation who will be considered to sit at tier 6.  

6. Recognition of uncertainty of the highland/lowland boundary invites a possible change to the boundary position. 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by morley

[Red Rose]

23 minutes ago, morley said:

This email from the SFA will be pored over but for me gives deliberate guidance meaning: 

1. By specifically referencing the EoSFL (the top league of it) and not the east region in general means the EoSFL is recognised by the sfa as the exclusive and only pyramid league there can be in the East.

2. The sfa want the SoSL to continue to have an exclusive place at tier 6 and equal in size to the East tier 6 or any other regional tier 6. 

3. Calling out there can only be 32 more clubs at tier 6, combined with actually spelling out the current split 16 each between EoSFL and SoSL, is a clear invite for the creation of both a West and Highland tier 6 league by someone with 16 in each to fill that remaining 32 places. Otherwise what was the point in this statement as that level of detail  wasn't really needed otherwise. 

4. Stating only the top division of each regions leaugue is to be considered tier 6, means there can't be overlapping geographical leagues at tier 6. Leaves it open for geographical overlap at tier 7 or below. 

5. Same statement as point 4 above, also means an important point of clarity from the sfa that its a specific league table rather than  a whole organisation who will be considered to sit at tier 6.  

6. Recognition of uncertainty of the highland/lowland boundary invites a possible change to the boundary position. 

 

Slaver VL 

[bendan]

8 hours ago, morley said:

This email from the SFA will be pored over but for me gives deliberate guidance meaning: 

1. By specifically referencing the EoSFL (the top league of it) and not the east region in general means the EoSFL is recognised by the sfa as the exclusive and only pyramid league there can be in the East at least at tier 6.

2. The sfa want the SoSL to continue to have an exclusive place at tier 6 and equal in size to the East tier 6 or any other regional tier 6. 

3. Calling out there can only be 32 more clubs at tier 6, combined with actually spelling out the current split 16 each between EoSFL and SoSL, is a clear invite for the creation of both a West and Highland tier 6 league by someone with 16 in each to fill that remaining 32 places. Otherwise what was the point in this statement as that level of detail  wasn't really needed otherwise. 

4. Stating only the top division of each regions leaugue is to be considered tier 6, means there can't be overlapping geographical leagues at tier 6. Leaves it open for geographical overlap at tier 7 or below. 

5. Same statement as point 4 above, also means an important point of clarity from the sfa that its a specific league table rather than  a whole organisation who will be considered to sit at tier 6.  

6. Recognition of uncertainty of the highland/lowland boundary invites a possible change to the boundary position. 

 

The SFA clearly don't know what they're doing, so I don't think there's much point reading too much into details. Of course, some of the issues have been obvious from the beginning (i.e. HL/LL boundary), so even the SFA couldn't miss them.

[Sergeant Wilson]

13 minutes ago, bendan said:

The SFA clearly don't know what they're doing, so I don't think there's much point reading too much into details. Of course, some of the issues have been obvious from the beginning (i.e. HL/LL boundary), so even the SFA couldn't miss them.

Some one should deploy this method to explain boundaries and other rules to Maxwell.

[parsforlife]

, so even the SFA couldn't miss them.

Petrie and maxwell did

[morley]

The sfa would be aware this email could set in motion far reaching consequences in the short term, (for example already seen a public reaction from Clydebank), and the sfa at least now seem to show recognition of the sensitivities around this subject. So I can't believe the content of the email will not have been carefully considered before it was issued. 

[LongTimeLurker]

30 minutes ago, bendan said:

The SFA clearly don't know what they're doing, so I don't think there's much point reading too much into details. Of course, some of the issues have been obvious from the beginning (i.e. HL/LL boundary), so even the SFA couldn't miss them.

It's obvious now that Ian Maxwell didn't understand the issues he was dealing with at the outset and Tom Johnson also being based at Hampden probably didn't help bring him fully up to speed in a balanced way. Unless he is a drooling moron he should now be fully aware of what is going on and the latest letter should be understood in that context.

The letter makes it clear that change has to happen by consensus rather than by a "board directive" and anyone with a triple digit IQ should be able to figure out by now that having parallel tier 6 divisions in the EoS catchment isn't going to happen by consensus, any more than the SoS agreeing to relegate itself from tier 6 is likely to.

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Some one should deploy this method to explain boundaries and other rules to Maxwell.

Or as I put it a wee while ago...

 

 

[edinabear]

What an absolute embarrassment this whole scenario has been. After a year of back a forth nothing has been agreed on. It is not difficult to resolve this, a West of Scotland league could be set up tomorrow as could a HL 2 and the integration of the remaining East juniors. It's actually laughable how badly the people in charge of the PWG have done.

[Deanburn Dave]

They have handled this terribly and it's been an absolute clusterf*ck from the beginning. Heads should roll but instead they will probably head off to the Carribbean for a workshop of some description.

No wonder Scottish Fitbaw is in a state with these folk at the helm.

[GNU_Linux]

What an absolute embarrassment this whole scenario has been. After a year of back a forth nothing has been agreed on. It is not difficult to resolve this, a West of Scotland league could be set up tomorrow as could a HL 2 and the integration of the remaining East juniors. It's actually laughable how badly the people in charge of the PWG have done.

Best bit is the PWG has existed in some form since about 2001 (never been as active as it has been in the last few years however).

[LongTimeLurker]

The interesting part of the letter is the significance of the "JJP " being applied at tier 6 and the angle that only the top 16 club division of any league can be considered to be tier 6. That's obviously aimed in part at the east region split format and creates the need for a division that West Lothian junior clubs like Fauldhouse, Pumpherston and Bathgate appear to want no part of due to all the travel to Tayside and hence is almost certainly a non-starter, but the significance runs deeper.

Previously the SJFA were going to do all of their own discipline with the argument being that the SFA could not handle the extra work load of handling discipline for an extra 130 or so clubs. This new posture is a roundabout way of saying that the SJFA would have a lower level of control over the two rather than three superleagues that may or may not ultimately form part of the 64 club tier six that is envisaged by Ian Maxwell than over its other member clubs in lower divisions. That hints strongly at his end game probably being a tier 6 that doesn't involve the SJFA in any way, shape or form., but is integrated fully into the SFA's mainstream structures

[Robert James]

10 hours ago, edinabear said:

What an absolute embarrassment this whole scenario has been. After a year of back a forth nothing has been agreed on. It is not difficult to resolve this, a West of Scotland league could be set up tomorrow as could a HL 2 and the integration of the remaining East juniors. It's actually laughable how badly the people in charge of the PWG have done.

Yes it has been very badly handled by the SFA...............but at last there is an SFA statement of intent about the future direction of the pyramid, and a structural framework (at tier 6),  which now appears to be clear. for senior and junior clubs.   That at least,  is a positive step forward, albeit very late.

What is also needed urgently from the SFA, is an additional statement about club licensing, including transparent  timescales for consideration and approval/rejection.  Also some 'guidelines' about "derogation" would be helpful, particularly for existing SFA Member clubs, that don't currently have floodlights, and hopefully for other clubs who submitted a licensing application under the 'old'  pre-1st January 2019 change of rules, and have not yet been told of the outcome.

Congratulations to Bonnyrigg Rose on becoming East of Scotland League Champions for 2018/19. I hope that BRA's club's licence will be approved, either under the 'old' rules, or with a "derogation" for the next two seasons (which I consider would be reasonable, because the regulatory planning approval process for floodlights can be lengthy). Bonnyrigg (and the other applicants) need to have a licensing decision before the impending AGM meetings.

Congratulations also to Cove Rangers for winning the Highland/Lowland playoffs against East Kilbride.  The Club 42 Play-Off Final, with Berwick Rangers will be worth watching. 

[Dev]

With regard to your point about matters having been very badly handled by the SFA. There is also the matter of changing the Licence criteria in mid season.

If the Lowland League was reprimanded for attempting to change its' Rules in mid season as this would affect promotion and relegation  -even though it was an attempt by the Lowland League to correct a generally accepted fault - then how come the SFA thinks that it is remotely reasonable for it to change Licencing rules in mid season when this obviously directly affects promotion and relegation matters in the Lowland League and the EoS?

What's sauce for the goose etc.