The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

14 hours ago, Passionate said:

I have a funny feeling we will return to part time from next season,  the quality of our Full time player is horrendous

We've spent too long trying to f@nny about with full time set ups and half @rsed hybrid systems giving hopeless youngsters full time deals and a hand full of journeymen rather than a tried and tested solid half and half we've seen Raith and Ayr use properly in the last decade.

14 hours ago, Mr November said:

While everyone else was out playing football, Paul and Jack McKay must have spent their childhood practicing endless throw-ins. I didn’t watch today’s game but glad that McKay played alright, if he can do a job at right back for the rest of the season then he’ll be a much better signing than any of us expected. 

Agreed on Scott Brown, I liked him last season too and he’s definitely the type of player we could be doing with. The hybrid set-up should be a good fit for players like him so I’d like to see us try and sign him in the summer.

Scott Brown is exactly the type of player (not him directly) I've been advocating signing for years. We're at the stage (have been for a while) where we should be trying to emulate Alloa, Arbroath and in recent seasons Dumbarton, where they've been the best part time teams in the country at some point, signing the real stand outs from L1 and 2 with some guys stepping down from the premiership to PT also. This floundering about being a half arsed excuse for a team benefits no-one.

[Passionate]

1 hour ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

We've spent too long trying to f@nny about with full time set ups and half @rsed hybrid systems giving hopeless youngsters full time deals and a hand full of journeymen rather than a tried and tested solid half and half we've seen Raith and Ayr use properly in the last decade.

Scott Brown is exactly the type of player (not him directly) I've been advocating signing for years. We're at the stage (have been for a while) where we should be trying to emulate Alloa, Arbroath and in recent seasons Dumbarton, where they've been the best part time teams in the country at some point, signing the real stand outs from L1 and 2 with some guys stepping down from the premiership to PT also. This floundering about being a half arsed excuse for a team benefits no-on

Haud on,  the system is working we get the cast offs from other clubs, we improve them and sell them on for money,    Edwards and Kyle Mac for example and also Stewart and Keiran Mac........ That is the reason we do t sign a player over 25 (remember that mantra pushed by some on here).    This is a tongue firmly in cheek statement although true,     Stuart Millar must have went to the same coaching school as Iain King(s ic) it I s the same manifesto ,  next season We have a chance to reset whatever division we are in....   As in the latter JB years we were the lowest  payers on the full time market and that shows in your quality of player/

 

[Kenny_m]

16 hours ago, Passionate said:

Predictable scoreline and performance ,  team lacks character .

 

Note....  I thought Max Currie had his best day as a diamond kept us in it early in second half,  another player with a lot of hype who has been pretty average since we signed him.

 

This will please a few on here Jack MacKay was probably our best p!ayer today bags of energy and seemed interested could be a good signing...

It's all about opinions of course but I thought Mackay was embarrassingly bad.

[Jack Reed]

2 hours ago, Kenny_m said:

It's all about opinions of course but I thought Mackay was embarrassingly bad.

Aye, maybe doing OK at training against who, 

[Mr November]

Not too convinced about this one but I suppose we are pretty short in midfield with Kerr and now Turner out.

[Guest Peter LaFleur]

Unlucky boys. 

[gav-ffc]

3 minutes ago, Mr November said:

Not too convinced about this one but I suppose we are pretty short in midfield with Kerr and now Turner out.

He and Turner are good pals off the pitch so not surprised by this move. Lewis Kidd next imo.

[airdrieman]

Absolutely nailed on to get a red card next week against Thistle IMO. 

[thediamonddude]

4 hours ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

We've spent too long trying to f@nny about with full time set ups and half @rsed hybrid systems giving hopeless youngsters full time deals and a hand full of journeymen rather than a tried and tested solid half and half we've seen Raith and Ayr use properly in the last decade.

Scott Brown is exactly the type of player (not him directly) I've been advocating signing for years. We're at the stage (have been for a while) where we should be trying to emulate Alloa, Arbroath and in recent seasons Dumbarton, where they've been the best part time teams in the country at some point, signing the real stand outs from L1 and 2 with some guys stepping down from the premiership to PT also. This floundering about being a half arsed excuse for a team benefits no-one.

This may be an obvious statement, but I don’t think the makeup/structure of our team has ever been the issue - it’s the recruitment itself that is killing us. As you say Ammo, the model has worked for Raith, Ayr and QOTS in the past.

If we wind the clocks back 5/6 years ago, we were starting to get a bit of consistency in a P/T squad and good players that I genuinely believe would have got us promoted with one or two additions - Parry, Crighton, Lithgow, Cadden, Prunty and Lister - but then along came Tom Witherspoon and pushed the reset button to go hybrid.

There was nothing wrong with that in theory, but the problem was that we spent most of what was a modest budget on a handful of ‘good’ players (of which, Ryan and Russell were probably the only ones worth paying what we were) and the rest went on untried kids.

Then, the takeover happened and we took the sensible approach to go back P/T, but our recruitment was so scattergun and had no logic to it at times.

Now we’ve gone hybrid again, which I think was the sensible, logical next step but for whatever reason, we’ve not recruited well...again.

Now all of the above, in my view, is down to too many cooks in the kitchen or, those with very little clue about football making the calls - we had Wotherspoon/King/various managers, then Findlay/with some likely input from the board and now Murray/Millar/likely input from the board.

Forget about this basket case of a season and whatever happens - now that Millar is gone, the club needs to decide if Murray is the man to take us into next season and if he is, let him buy his players.  Whether F/T, P/T or hybrid, at our level, the manager needs to be left to decide on his own players, tactics and team selection - if it doesn’t work, that’s on him.

[Jack Reed]

1 hour ago, gav-ffc said:

He and Turner are good pals off the pitch so not surprised by this move. Lewis Kidd next imo.

Forget about  sending off, that's 2 good signing's, we will finish  league strong, 

[Guest Peter LaFleur]

3 hours ago, Jack Reed said:

Forget about  sending off, that's 2 good signing's, we will finish  league strong, 

Turners a very good signing but Paton is a donkey. It amazes me looking back at his career after seeing him play. Fair play to him.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Peter LaFleur

[Aufc]

Turners a very good signing but Paton is a donkey. It amazes me looking at his career after seeing him play. Fair play to him.

Paton was actually brilliant at dundee united. Him and john rankin were a big part of the success of that team that had andy robertson etc in it.

[Jack Reed]

3 hours ago, Peter LaFleur said:

Turners a very good signing but Paton is a donkey. It amazes me looking at his career after seeing him play. Fair play to him.

Man Sent of 4 mins, Roberts  hurt, had to go off, although he wast having a great game, and now  we have signed a donkey, all in a weekend, can only be Airdrieee 

[Mr November]

3 hours ago, thediamonddude said:

This may be an obvious statement, but I don’t think the makeup/structure of our team has ever been the issue - it’s the recruitment itself that is killing us. As you say Ammo, the model has worked for Raith, Ayr and QOTS in the past.

If we wind the clocks back 5/6 years ago, we were starting to get a bit of consistency in a P/T squad and good players that I genuinely believe would have got us promoted with one or two additions - Parry, Crighton, Lithgow, Cadden, Prunty and Lister - but then along came Tom Witherspoon and pushed the reset button to go hybrid.

There was nothing wrong with that in theory, but the problem was that we spent most of what was a modest budget on a handful of ‘good’ players (of which, Ryan and Russell were probably the only ones worth paying what we were) and the rest went on untried kids.

Then, the takeover happened and we took the sensible approach to go back P/T, but our recruitment was so scattergun and had no logic to it at times.

Now we’ve gone hybrid again, which I think was the sensible, logical next step but for whatever reason, we’ve not recruited well...again.

Now all of the above, in my view, is down to too many cooks in the kitchen or, those with very little clue about football making the calls - we had Wotherspoon/King/various managers, then Findlay/with some likely input from the board and now Murray/Millar/likely input from the board.

Forget about this basket case of a season and whatever happens - now that Millar is gone, the club needs to decide if Murray is the man to take us into next season and if he is, let him buy his players.  Whether F/T, P/T or hybrid, at our level, the manager needs to be left to decide on his own players, tactics and team selection - if it doesn’t work, that’s on him.

This is linked to something I’ve mentioned before but we’ve had absolutely no consistency over the last 5 or 6 years. We’ve gone from a reasonable part-time team on presumably a fairly low budget, to a full-time team full of youngsters on two year deals, a very experienced but ultimately mediocre part-time team full of average League One players on two year deals and now a hybrid system.

Looking at Arbroath and Alloa, the two best part-time teams over the last few years, both have had a lot of consistency within their squads. That doesn’t mean just keeping everyone for the sake of it but identifying the best part-time players, some young players released from full-time clubs as well as experienced players moving from full-time to part-time. We’ve pretty much tried all of those approaches at different times over the last few years but each time it hasn’t worked, mainly due to poor recruitment and a lack of balance in the squad. 

The current team and the 2016/17 full-time team probably have similar issues. Poor recruitment, no real quality in terms of squad depth and a lot of young players. I don’t think experience needs to be players on the way down, it can be guys like Carrick, Fordyce etc who are still a good age but have played at a higher level and are good players for League One. We probably don’t have enough of that though, as the bench is generally made up of younger, unproven players. It’s good to have young players within the squad, Findlay’s 2018/2019 team of experienced plodders were so slow, but getting that balance right is the most important thing. 

You’re never going to get every signing correct at this level but I feel particularly last summer a lot of the players we brought in have ended up being pretty pointless signings. You could argue they haven’t had a proper chance yet with the shortened season but Mbayo, Stokes, O’Reilly and Murdoch haven’t shown anything (admittedly Murdoch’s not played at all) and even Ritchie and Sabatini have been in and out the team. Currie, Robert and Connell have all been good but overall 3/9 isn’t a great success rate. Admittedly I was pretty happy with our recruitment last summer, we had a solid base to build on from last season and I hoped that the new players could add to that. Yes we took a few risks but on our budget we probably need to do that sometimes. Unfortunately some players who did well last season haven’t quite met the same standards this season (Crighton, Gallagher, McCann, MacDonald) and I think that’s shown how poor the recruitment has been. When those players aren’t performing we still don’t seem to have anyone beyond that who can come in and make a difference. 

[airdrieman]

5 hours ago, thediamonddude said:

This may be an obvious statement, but I don’t think the makeup/structure of our team has ever been the issue - it’s the recruitment itself that is killing us. As you say Ammo, the model has worked for Raith, Ayr and QOTS in the past.

If we wind the clocks back 5/6 years ago, we were starting to get a bit of consistency in a P/T squad and good players that I genuinely believe would have got us promoted with one or two additions - Parry, Crighton, Lithgow, Cadden, Prunty and Lister - but then along came Tom Witherspoon and pushed the reset button to go hybrid.

There was nothing wrong with that in theory, but the problem was that we spent most of what was a modest budget on a handful of ‘good’ players (of which, Ryan and Russell were probably the only ones worth paying what we were) and the rest went on untried kids.

Then, the takeover happened and we took the sensible approach to go back P/T, but our recruitment was so scattergun and had no logic to it at times.

Now we’ve gone hybrid again, which I think was the sensible, logical next step but for whatever reason, we’ve not recruited well...again.

Now all of the above, in my view, is down to too many cooks in the kitchen or, those with very little clue about football making the calls - we had Wotherspoon/King/various managers, then Findlay/with some likely input from the board and now Murray/Millar/likely input from the board.

Forget about this basket case of a season and whatever happens - now that Millar is gone, the club needs to decide if Murray is the man to take us into next season and if he is, let him buy his players.  Whether F/T, P/T or hybrid, at our level, the manager needs to be left to decide on his own players, tactics and team selection - if it doesn’t work, that’s on him.

 

1 hour ago, Mr November said:

This is linked to something I’ve mentioned before but we’ve had absolutely no consistency over the last 5 or 6 years. We’ve gone from a reasonable part-time team on presumably a fairly low budget, to a full-time team full of youngsters on two year deals, a very experienced but ultimately mediocre part-time team full of average League One players on two year deals and now a hybrid system.

Looking at Arbroath and Alloa, the two best part-time teams over the last few years, both have had a lot of consistency within their squads. That doesn’t mean just keeping everyone for the sake of it but identifying the best part-time players, some young players released from full-time clubs as well as experienced players moving from full-time to part-time. We’ve pretty much tried all of those approaches at different times over the last few years but each time it hasn’t worked, mainly due to poor recruitment and a lack of balance in the squad. 

The current team and the 2016/17 full-time team probably have similar issues. Poor recruitment, no real quality in terms of squad depth and a lot of young players. I don’t think experience needs to be players on the way down, it can be guys like Carrick, Fordyce etc who are still a good age but have played at a higher level and are good players for League One. We probably don’t have enough of that though, as the bench is generally made up of younger, unproven players. It’s good to have young players within the squad, Findlay’s 2018/2019 team of experienced plodders were so slow, but getting that balance right is the most important thing. 

You’re never going to get every signing correct at this level but I feel particularly last summer a lot of the players we brought in have ended up being pretty pointless signings. You could argue they haven’t had a proper chance yet with the shortened season but Mbayo, Stokes, O’Reilly and Murdoch haven’t shown anything (admittedly Murdoch’s not played at all) and even Ritchie and Sabatini have been in and out the team. Currie, Robert and Connell have all been good but overall 3/9 isn’t a great success rate. Admittedly I was pretty happy with our recruitment last summer, we had a solid base to build on from last season and I hoped that the new players could add to that. Yes we took a few risks but on our budget we probably need to do that sometimes. Unfortunately some players who did well last season haven’t quite met the same standards this season (Crighton, Gallagher, McCann, MacDonald) and I think that’s shown how poor the recruitment has been. When those players aren’t performing we still don’t seem to have anyone beyond that who can come in and make a difference. 

Yeah I completely agree with both of these posts. I actually think the hybrid structure is the best way to go in terms of where the club is at on and off the park at the moment. But, as with everything, the execution is what matters. And while I think there's a kernel of a good squad there, I don't believe we have a manager who gets the best out of them or an overall effective recruitment/squad-building strategy. I don't expect every signing to work out but, for a promotion chasing side, I do expect at least a little bit of fire-power or game-changing ability off the bench. But our options off the bench are actually pathetic in all honesty. We must have the biggest drop-off in quality between starting XI and the substitutes' bench in the league. 

A novel strategy, though one that might just work, is hiring a manager who signs good players and plays them in their best positions. 

I'd be happy to keep Currie, Kerr, Fordyce, Crighton, McCann, P. McKay, Robert, Carrick and Gallagher and bin the rest. Though I'd expect Robert to be gone (albeit he could possibly come back on loan) and, if Murray is still around, Roy and Jack McKay to be offered deals as well. 

[airdrieman]

As for Paul Paton, unlike Murray, I'm not entirely convinced ANOTHER defensive midfielder is what we require. And I tend to think when a player that age moves down to the non-leagues it's probably for a reason. But, on the plus side, he is undoubtedly experienced and streetwise which is exactly what we need. He'll also most probably do a better job in there than Ritchie and Murray is obviously not a fan of Sabatini for whatever reason, so perhaps he will add something to the squad while Kerr, Turner and possibly Robert and McKay(?) are all out. I've never been a huge fan of his but he was still playing in the Championship until last season so if he can do us a solid turn, even for half a dozen games or so, then absolutely fair enough. 

Also, huge game next week now. A genuine must win and I'd say we need at least 7/9 points from our next three games.  When was the last time we won a big game at home? I genuinely don't think I could tell you. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by airdrieman

[peternapper]

Just out of interest how many of your squad are full time, have always wondered how the hybrid system works for training etc, if you have 7 or 8 full time can you do much in training apart from fitness, as i say i have no idea of the split between full time & part time players you have. You can see the difference with a full time team like Falkirk but at our level if you can get good part timers think you can get better value.

 

[Eric the half a b]

9 minutes ago, airdrieman said:

As for Paul Paton, unlike Murray, I'm not entirely convinced ANOTHER defensive midfielder is what we require. And I tend to think when a player that age moves down to the non-leagues it's probably for a reason. But, on the plus side, he is undoubtedly experienced and streetwise which is exactly what we need. He'll also most probably do a better job in there than Ritchie and Murray is obviously not a fan of Sabatini for whatever reason, so perhaps he will add something to the squad while Kerr, Turner and possibly Robert and McKay(?) are all out. I've never been a huge fan of his but he was still playing in the Championship until last season so if he can do us a solid turn, even for half a dozen games or so, then absolutely fair enough. 

There will be many changes for next season Miller controlled the signings and the team the sad thing is they  have not learned anything over the last couple of years same old  mistakes fine being defensive and hitting the top teams on the break but can't breakdown the teams in the bottom half of league.  We are going nowhere fast unless we be more positive.  For years now we have went for the young inexperienced or untried managers at this level as mentioned we need a manager who is clued up wnd will attract a better level of player and can develop some of the youngsters. Many players have left us and been decent at other clubs.

 

[Mr November]

1 hour ago, peternapper said:

Just out of interest how many of your squad are full time, have always wondered how the hybrid system works for training etc, if you have 7 or 8 full time can you do much in training apart from fitness, as i say i have no idea of the split between full time & part time players you have. You can see the difference with a full time team like Falkirk but at our level if you can get good part timers think you can get better value.

 

I don’t think we’ve ever announced the split but last season we had 15 or so young players making up the reserve squad and I think the majority of them were full-time, along with 10 or so first team players. It’s hard to tell this season as we got rid of the reserve squad bar 5 or so players but I think there’s slightly more full-time than part-time, though a lot of our regular starters like Currie, Carrick and Gallagher are all part-time as far as I know. 

We certainly can’t afford to go completely full-time, we saw how that worked out a few years ago, but a hybrid system has worked for teams at this level and is certainly a good option within the right set-up. I don’t think we’ve quite perfected that balance yet though. Coaching seems to be an issue as well, for most of the last two seasons I think Ian Murray has been the only full-time coach, maybe Sean Crighton too albeit he is a player-coach.

[peternapper]

32 minutes ago, Mr November said:

I don’t think we’ve ever announced the split but last season we had 15 or so young players making up the reserve squad and I think the majority of them were full-time, along with 10 or so first team players. It’s hard to tell this season as we got rid of the reserve squad bar 5 or so players but I think there’s slightly more full-time than part-time, though a lot of our regular starters like Currie, Carrick and Gallagher are all part-time as far as I know. 

We certainly can’t afford to go completely full-time, we saw how that worked out a few years ago, but a hybrid system has worked for teams at this level and is certainly a good option within the right set-up. I don’t think we’ve quite perfected that balance yet though. Coaching seems to be an issue as well, for most of the last two seasons I think Ian Murray has been the only full-time coach, maybe Sean Crighton too albeit he is a player-coach.

Fair enough as you say it may work for some but difficult to get the mix right. Like a lot of part time sides we usually have a full squad of around 18-20 players max, the problem we have had is location & until recently only had one player based in Aberdeen we had to go for quality rather than quantity by paying good wages.