Squad face March

[Bairnardo]

You’re probably out of luck trying to reason with the “I WONT HAVE ANYONE SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT ARTIFICIAL PITCHES” brigade.

Is there such a brigade?

Personally I take issue to the media pandering to petty statements from Gerrard and Rodgers and packaging them up as fact.

Falkirk have one but shockingly, I feel no loyalty to a pitch

(Reminder, it goes good grass, good astro, shit grass, shit astro)

But if my club and others are going to be called out by players media and fans, il have it based on facts and evidence or not at all.

[The Moonster]

47 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

I have absolutely no opinion of injuries on the surface, merely that there's a higher risk of re injuring in those who have pre existing injuries. 

 

My ACL was done on an artificial surface but I reckon due to the nature of the injury it would've happened on grass anyway, since then though I've found that doing sports on artificial injures aggrivates it more, the more slidey nature of the pitch leads to more twists. Even hard grass pitches seem to have more give on them than most artificial surfaces which leads to sore hips/kness after a long game on them. 

 

I've not got a single reason to lie about this, not all knee injuries are the same and not all artificial pitches are as good as each other, maybe mine while fully recuperated will always be susceptible to it, maybe others won't. As it is though I won't get worked up over a player asking to not play on it. If they were to play but they weren't confident would they be able to give 100%? I never had a problem playing on good artificial surfaces before my injury, but afterwards they're a bit of a nightmare. 

Nobody is claiming you're lying about your knee being sore, we're stating that your personal opinion isn't supported by any real data and there have now been umpteen studies carried out on various artificial surfaces. If people don't like artificial surfaces that's fine, but we need to stop saying they cause injury.

35 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

You’re probably out of luck trying to reason with the “I WONT HAVE ANYONE SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT ARTIFICIAL PITCHES” brigade.

I prefer to be referred to as the "I ACCEPT FACT OVER PERSONAL OPINION" brigade, but thanks for your input.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I mean, Saints left their best striker out of matches on it for over four years because of it, think they just done that for the crack?

You're a tinpot outfit so probably yes. 

[Salvo Montalbano]

Find out who his surgeon was and ask.
MacLean has had knee injuries since he was about 18, and needed surgery in 2013, and 2014, on his knees. It was after this he was told to stay off it, hes not had a major knee injury since.
You can keep mocking things just because it's me who's saying it if it makes you feel better though.

So what you're saying is that MacLean hasn't had a major injury in that time - a time in which he played fewer games than he normally would have? You don't think that may have had an effect?

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Grant228 said:

I have absolutely no opinion of injuries on the surface, merely that there's a higher risk of re injuring in those who have pre existing injuries. 

 

My ACL was done on an artificial surface but I reckon due to the nature of the injury it would've happened on grass anyway, since then though I've found that doing sports on artificial injures aggrivates it more, the more slidey nature of the pitch leads to more twists. Even hard grass pitches seem to have more give on them than most artificial surfaces which leads to sore hips/kness after a long game on them. 

 

I've not got a single reason to lie about this, not all knee injuries are the same and not all artificial pitches are as good as each other, maybe mine while fully recuperated will always be susceptible to it, maybe others won't. As it is though I won't get worked up over a player asking to not play on it. If they were to play but they weren't confident would they be able to give 100%? I never had a problem playing on good artificial surfaces before my injury, but afterwards they're a bit of a nightmare. 

Nobody is saying that you're lying champ; what they are saying is that your personal beliefs and feelings are completely irrelevant in the face of peer-reviewed, scientific evidence. It's quite possible that you've simply developed a negative association with the pitch after suffering an injury, in the same way that giving sugar pills as a placebo drug often relieve pain in patients. But how your mind responds to playing on a plastic surface or taking a sugar pill doesn't make them objectively worse/better than the alternative. 

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

So what you're saying is that MacLean hasn't had a major injury in that time - a time in which he played fewer games than he normally would have? You don't think that may have had an effect?

Not to mention the fucking obvious explanation that undergoing for surgery to resolve knee problems might lead to fewer or no knee injuries afterwards. What the f**k were they planning for, more knee injuries afterwards? 

'Operation in being a success shock' for this pish. 

[DA Baracus]

Anyone know what kind of artificial pitch the team will be playing on? 

What condition is it in? 

Is it near the end of it's life cycle or near the start?

[TheScarf]

Aye so, the squad eh?

[eez-eh]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Is there such a brigade?

Personally I take issue to the media pandering to petty statements from Gerrard and Rodgers and packaging them up as fact.

Falkirk have one but shockingly, I feel no loyalty to a pitch

(Reminder, it goes good grass, good astro, shit grass, shit astro)

But if my club and others are going to be called out by players media and fans, il have it based on facts and evidence or not at all.

 

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Nobody is claiming you're lying about your knee being sore, we're stating that your personal opinion isn't supported by any real data and there have now been umpteen studies carried out on various artificial surfaces. If people don't like artificial surfaces that's fine, but we need to stop saying they cause injury.

I prefer to be referred to as the "I ACCEPT FACT OVER PERSONAL OPINION" brigade, but thanks for your input.

I’m not doubting that there’s a lot of myths perpetuated about artificial pitches, and I’m not against them, but it’s bizarre the complete overreaction there is to one guy saying that his injury prone joints/ligaments often feel worse after playing on artificial grass.

Just as it’s ridiculous the bullshit that gets spouted about them, it’s equally ridiculous how defensive some people get when someone talks about their personal experience and it doesn’t conform with everything they think.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

7 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Find out who his surgeon was and ask.
MacLean has had knee injuries since he was about 18, and needed surgery in 2013, and 2014, on his knees. It was after this he was told to stay off it, hes not had a major knee injury since.
You can keep mocking things just because it's me who's saying it if it makes you feel better though.

So what you're saying is that MacLean hasn't had a major injury in that time - a time in which he played fewer games than he normally would have? You don't think that may have had an effect?

He played about three or four less games a season. Again, all I've said is a surgeon who worked on his knees, twice, told him the chances of injuring the same knee were heightened if he played on the firmer artificial surface.

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Not to mention the fucking obvious explanation that undergoing for surgery to resolve knee problems might lead to fewer or no knee injuries afterwards. What the f**k were they planning for, more knee injuries afterwards? 

'Operation in being a success shock' for this pish. 

Well he got a knee injury in 2013, had surgery, continued to play on artificial surfaces, got another knee injury in 2014, had surgery and stopped playing on artificial surfaces, and hasn't had a major knee injury since.

You're speaking as if a 30+ year old man with a history of knee problems since he was 18 can have a surgery that completely rids him of those issues.

[The Moonster]

31 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

 

I’m not doubting that there’s a lot of myths perpetuated about artificial pitches, and I’m not against them, but it’s bizarre the complete overreaction there is to one guy saying that his injury prone joints/ligaments often feel worse after playing on artificial grass.

Just as it’s ridiculous the bullshit that gets spouted about them, it’s equally ridiculous how defensive some people get when someone talks about their personal experience and it doesn’t conform with everything they think.

Come on to f**k, it's Pie and Bovril, overreaction to trivial things is what this place was fucking built on.

He presented his "experience" as justification for people who think plastic pitches are bad. It was pointed out that you need to examine more than a single persons experience, and the studies that have examined more than that don't support his view. That then led to more experts chiming in with things like "I'm no doctor but it seems obvious to me that plastic pitches must be worse for injuries". I mean what chance have ye got.

[Jeremiah Cole]

38 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

He played about three or four less games a season. Again, all I've said is a surgeon who worked on his knees, twice, told him the chances of injuring the same knee were heightened if he played on the firmer artificial surface.

 

Do you have any proof that the surgeon told him this?

And, if he did, did the surgeon base his opinion on scientific evidence?

Well he got a knee injury in 2013, had surgery, continued to play on artificial surfaces, got another knee injury in 2014,

He also continued to play on grass surfaces during this period as well?

Maybe the second surgery was successful?

[HoBNob]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Nobody is claiming you're lying about your knee being sore, we're stating that your personal opinion isn't supported by any real data and there have now been umpteen studies carried out on various artificial surfaces. If people don't like artificial surfaces that's fine, but we need to stop saying they cause injury.

I'm saying they can aggregate old injuries, an entirely different proposition, something that isn't opposed by real data, if it was I'm sure someone would've linked it. 

2 hours ago, virginton said:

Nobody is saying that you're lying champ; what they are saying is that your personal beliefs and feelings are completely irrelevant in the face of peer-reviewed, scientific evidence. . 

Where. 

[Jeremiah Cole]

40 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You're speaking as if a 30+ year old man with a history of knee problems since he was 18 can have a surgery that completely rids him of those issues.

So, his knee issues actually go back to when he was a youth as opposed to a specific injury on a specific playing surface?

[HoBNob]

3 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said:

So, his knee issues actually go back to when he was a youth as opposed to a specific injury on a specific playing surface?

At what point has RandomGuy brought up the original surface that the injury occurred on? It means absolutely nothing to the point he's trying to make. 

[RandomGuy.]

21 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said:

Do you have any proof that the surgeon told him this?

And, if he did, did the surgeon base his opinion on scientific evidence?

Theres about 50 articles where both the player and manager state a surgeon told him.

The surgeon was apparently a specialist in sporting injuries, are you wanting to email him and ask for a dossier or something? I'm not stating anything that's an opinion, just the fact that players can be told by professional doctors to avoid the surface if they've certain injuries.

18 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said:

So, his knee issues actually go back to when he was a youth as opposed to a specific injury on a specific playing surface?

What? I never said he got injured on plastic, just that his specific injury is apparently aggravated by artificial surfaces, as stated by the player when talking about the injury.

[Jeremiah Cole]

18 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

At what point has RandomGuy brought up the original surface that the injury occurred on? It means absolutely nothing to the point he's trying to make. 

At what point did I say that he did bring it up?

 

[Jeremiah Cole]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Theres about 50 articles where both the player and manager state a surgeon told him.

The surgeon was apparently a specialist in sporting injuries, are you wanting to email him and ask for a dossier or something? I'm not stating anything that's an opinion, just the fact that players can be told by professional doctors to avoid the surface if they've certain injuries.

What? I never said he got injured on plastic, just that his specific injury is apparently aggravated by artificial surfaces, as stated by the player when talking about the injury.

Can you give us links to any of these 50 articles?

He was just "apparently" a specialist?

Why would I e-mail him? You're the one stating that he said these things. You e-mail him!

So, if his injury wasn't caused by a plastic pitch, why would it be aggravated by a plastic pitch?

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, eez-eh said:

You’re probably out of luck trying to reason with the “I WONT HAVE ANYONE SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT ARTIFICIAL PITCHES” brigade.

Its mental, I make a fairly simple point that some players are being told not to play on it due to previous injuries, whilst giving an example, and all of a sudden multiple folk are demanding scientific studies into  things and claiming I've said things I've not.

None of what I've said was my opinion.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah Cole said:

Can you give us links to any of these 50 articles?

He was just "apparently" a specialist?

Why would I e-mail him? You're the one stating that he said these things. You e-mail him!

So, if his injury wasn't caused by a plastic pitch, why would it be aggravated by a plastic pitch?

Its seemingly because plastic pitches are firmer on the legs, so any shock goes through your knees rather than being absorbed by the ground.

Google "Steven MacLean surgery", as I cant be arsed continuing this.

I've no issue with plastic pitches, and haven't claimed they cause injuries, I was just stating a simple fact that some players will be told, rightly or wrongly, not to play on it by medical professionals. This fucking witch hunt any time someone dares say anything remotely negative about them is just pathetic.