Greg Taylor

[ewan14]

2 hours ago, Merkland Red said:

Not entirely surprising, if not disappointing.

Great movement from an £85m striker but we'll blame the young laddie who plays in the SPFL every week. We'll also forget his team mates who decided to stop playing to allow the cross to come in.

Seconded

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

15 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Taylor wasn't at fault for the 2nd goal.  The linesman was.

It should have been offside, but it wasn't given. The fact remains that Taylor was still ball watching.

That's not blaming him, it's stating a fact. As has been pointed out, the players he was up against are light years away from the normal dross he'll come up against in Scotland, both in speed of movement and thought.

The experience will have done him good (as with McKenna and O'Donnell). It's a lesson in how to remain switched on for every second of the 90 minutes.

[Jani_Uotinen]

Are you at the wind up mate, or just thick?

Severe lack of oestrogen has seriously stunted your brain growth.

[woof!]

Rangers are looking for a left back. I can see this thread turning sour. 

[Mr Heliums]

I thought he did really well. Bit harsh to focus on him switching off for a goal as if that's somehow evidence of his limitations as a player. If, so then it's fair to point to Robertson's error on Saturday, which could have been far more costly.

 

[Estragon]

3 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

 

Both fair comments. 

Like the rest of the Scottish players, McKenna turned off for 2 seconds at the first goal thinking the ball was going out. That was enough time for Lukaku to get a step on him and I doubt if more than a couple of defenders in international football would have been able to prevent the goal once the cross came in.

Equally, Taylor at the second. He was guilty of ball watching, but such is the class of these Belgian players they were instantly aware that our defence wasn't holding a line, and found space accordingly. OK, De Bruijne was marginally offside but still his movement was terrific. 

None of us should be harsh on players like Taylor and McKenna, who are both youngsters still learning the game. How many central defenders are accomplished players in their early 20's ? The last Scot I can think of who fitted that category was Alex McLeish, and even he made his international debut in midfield and didn't become the defender he was for Scotland until well into his 20's.

These players need some breathing space, not constant sniping because they're not perfect. 

Thank goodness.

It's disappointing, but not surprising that the usual suspects are lining up to have a go at young players at the outset of their international careers.  Plus ca change.

[RandomGuy.]

7 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Scott McKenna.

 

6 hours ago, Merkland Red said:

McKenna 

 

6 hours ago, Merkland Red said:

McKenna

 

5 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

 

McKenna ...McKenna

 

3 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

McKenna

Greg Taylor thread 

[Dons_1988]

Some reasoned discussion breaks out so here comes random...

[54_and_counting]

21yo switches off for a second at international level, that will happen, but he has plenty of time to get experience at this level, 

Same with mckenna, i dont rate him tbh but if he's the best scotland have then its a case of getting him experienced at this level and working around his failings, but at least he is young enough to obtain the experience required for internationals

[Ira Gaines]

A lapse in concentration when under total pressure for a solid 90 minutes? Hang him.

Obviously he was very good last night, and yes, that defending for the goal was poor. Every defender is capable of that.

[Gordopolis]

20 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

21yo switches off for a second at international level, that will happen, but he has plenty of time to get experience at this level, 

Same with mckenna, i dont rate him tbh but if he's the best scotland have then its a case of getting him experienced at this level and working around his failings, but at least he is young enough to obtain the experience required for internationals

No no, don't be silly. What we should do is drop McKenna and Taylor and bring in the next young hopes... but only until they make a mistake then drop them too. Rinse and repeat.

That approach has  given us a shower of 20-40 cap defensive wonders over the past 15 years and as we all know has been highly successful at stopping us from having to bother going to tournaments.

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

No no, don't be silly. What we should do is drop McKenna and Taylor and bring in the next young hopes... but only until they make a mistake then drop them too. Rinse and repeat.

That approach has  given us a shower of 20-40 cap defensive wonders over the past 15 years and as we all know has been highly successful at stopping us from having to bother going to tournaments.

Tbf scotland haven't really brought in the youngsters, thats the issue, how many failed campaigns did scotland go through with guys like fletcher (both) brown, hutton, mulgrew (still here) and other older players who proved time and again that they weren't good enough, meanwhile guys like callum mcgregor at the age of 25 has 9 caps even though he's averaging 24 games a season for celtic first team

Before anyone moans blah blah celtic etc, im simply using a regular first team player that has so little caps for his age when he clearly should have had more by now, theres others in the exact same boat purely down to the fact that successive Scotland managers didn't drop players who clearly werent good enough and try bringing through the guys that might be given enough time 

[SpoonTon]

17 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Tbf scotland haven't really brought in the youngsters, thats the issue, how many failed campaigns did scotland go through with guys like fletcher (both) brown, hutton, mulgrew (still here) and other older players who proved time and again that they weren't good enough, meanwhile guys like callum mcgregor at the age of 25 has 9 caps even though he's averaging 24 games a season for celtic first team

Before anyone moans blah blah celtic etc, im simply using a regular first team player that has so little caps for his age when he clearly should have had more by now, theres others in the exact same boat purely down to the fact that successive Scotland managers didn't drop players who clearly werent good enough and try bringing through the guys that might be given enough time 

While there are occasions when it's quite clear that a talented young player is coming through and deserves the time and patience to develop (e.g. Strachan picking Forsyth in front of Roberson in Ireland was clearly the wrong decision), I don't think that simply bringing in young players in the hope that they might become good enough is a reasonable idea. It's obviously an important part of a manager's job to pick out the best young players and start to give them chances, but it's incredibly difficult to predict who will emerge as the best of those players. It's easy to look back and point to who has emerged, but, as numerous P&B threads will testify to, it's very difficult to pick out the stars of the future. McGregor was unlucky to not get a look in when we were performing well in 2017, but he wasn't really deserving of a call before that. 

It's also unwise to simply dump all the experienced players. We badly missed experience on the pitch against Belgium. It's all good and well wanting to bring young players through, but it's also important for their development to have those experienced heads on the pitch as well. Steven Fletcher was a great help to the players around him in the game against Israel, for example.

This has been the cry of many fans for years, whether its been for Mark Burchill or Jordan Rhodes, but often the young players simply don't turn out to be good enough. 

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

While there are occasions when it's quite clear that a talented young player is coming through and deserves the time and patience to develop (e.g. Strachan picking Forsyth in front of Roberson in Ireland was clearly the wrong decision), I don't think that simply bringing in young players in the hope that they might become good enough is a reasonable idea. It's obviously an important part of a manager's job to pick out the best young players and start to give them chances, but it's incredibly difficult to predict who will emerge as the best of those players. It's easy to look back and point to who has emerged, but, as numerous P&B threads will testify to, it's very difficult to pick out the stars of the future. McGregor was unlucky to not get a look in when we were performing well in 2017, but he wasn't really deserving of a call before that. 

It's also unwise to simply dump all the experienced players. We badly missed experience on the pitch against Belgium. It's all good and well wanting to bring young players through, but it's also important for their development to have those experienced heads on the pitch as well. Steven Fletcher was a great help to the players around him in the game against Israel, for example.

This has been the cry of many fans for years, whether its been for Mark Burchill or Jordan Rhodes, but often the young players simply don't turn out to be good enough. 

Theres a reason why there was no experience against belgium, the players now didnt get it while consistent failures continued to play even when they werent good enough, 

[ONeils4Oyarder]

I thought Taylor played reasonably well and I'm comfortable with him being included in squads going forward...that Stephen O'Donnell on the other side though, jesus wept

[Jeremiah_Cole]

19 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

Theres a reason why there was no experience against belgium, the players now didnt get it while consistent failures continued to play even when they werent good enough, 

That isn't true at all.

David Marshall is very experienced.

Greg Taylor was only playing because Robertson and Tierney were injured. Both got their first caps in their teens.

Charlie Mulgrew is very experienced.

Scott McKenna's only had 2 full season's of first team football with Aberdeen. He got his first cap in his first season full season.

McTominay only emerged this season.

This was Kenny McLean's first season in England and he was injured for a large chunk of it.

Ryan Fraser made his Scotland debut in the same season that he started playing regularly for Bournemouth.

Forrest is experienced with 28 caps.

Armstrong got his first cap in the same season that he established himself as a regular first choice at Celtic in the number 10 role.

Current, experienced regular EPL players such as Snodgrass, Ritchie & McArthur have all retired as has Scott Brown.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

If Greg Taylor performs well enough to keep wee shit Tierney out of the squad, that's fine by me.

[Gordopolis]

That isn't true at all.
David Marshall is very experienced.
Greg Taylor was only playing because Robertson and Tierney were injured. Both got their first caps in their teens.
Charlie Mulgrew is very experienced.
Scott McKenna's only had 2 full season's of first team football with Aberdeen. He got his first cap in his first season full season.
McTominay only emerged this season.
This was Kenny McLean's first season in England and he was injured for a large chunk of it.
Ryan Fraser made his Scotland debut in the same season that he started playing regularly for Bournemouth.
Forrest is experienced with 28 caps.
Armstrong got his first cap in the same season that he established himself as a regular first choice at Celtic in the number 10 role.
Current, experienced regular EPL players such as Snodgrass, Ritchie & McArthur have all retired as has Scott Brown.

I agree with 54 but what you say here is also largely correct.
I think the core issue is "why do so few of our players look ready for international football until their mid-20s?"

[Dindeleux]

On 6/12/2019 at 09:58, Bob Mahelp said:

Interesting how people can drool over 21 year old Greg Taylor, but trip over themselves to criticise 22 year old Scott McKenna.

Both of them had decent games last night against some of the best players in the world.  Both made mistakes.....as did every single member of the side.....but in general both put in solid performances under the circumstances.

Perspective and all that. In one player, some people look only for the positives and ignore the mistakes. In another player, some people look only for the mistakes and ignore the positives.

Scottish fitba fans, eh ? 

 

A lot of people, regardless of nationality, want others to fail in life.  Its not solely related to football or the Scottish national team. 

 

I think sometimes we forget about the opposition in any criticism of players.  I think Scott McKenna, and GT, are absolute standouts in the Scottish Premiership.  McKenna looks a level above the majority of defenders in the league.  When you come up against top players though you can suddenly look a lot more average.  Thats hard to overcome.  

 

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, Jeremiah_Cole said:

That isn't true at all.

David Marshall is very experienced.

Greg Taylor was only playing because Robertson and Tierney were injured. Both got their first caps in their teens.

Charlie Mulgrew is very experienced.

Scott McKenna's only had 2 full season's of first team football with Aberdeen. He got his first cap in his first season full season.

McTominay only emerged this season.

This was Kenny McLean's first season in England and he was injured for a large chunk of it.

Ryan Fraser made his Scotland debut in the same season that he started playing regularly for Bournemouth.

Forrest is experienced with 28 caps.

Armstrong got his first cap in the same season that he established himself as a regular first choice at Celtic in the number 10 role.

Current, experienced regular EPL players such as Snodgrass, Ritchie & McArthur have all retired as has Scott Brown.

Charlie mulgrew hasnt been, isnt and wont be good enough, his experience wont cover him being not good enough, hence scotland should be blooding a partner for mckenna

Forrest is 27yo, since 2011 he's averaged less than 4 caps a year, probably a good chunk of them will be sub appearances as well, so his experience will be limited