pandarilla Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 So one sexual assault. How many were there before?The independent have an article relating to increased risk of assaults with mixed changing rooms. It seems to be 'a thing', which surprises me. https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Flife-style%2Fwomen%2Fsexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: Has this happened to anyone you know? Be honest. Has.Anyone you know died in a terrorist attack? So terrorism isn't real.then yeah? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, Kuro said: Every three months. At one swimming pool. You said the policy had only recently changed, so every three months presumably means one. Again, how many incidents were there before? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, pandarilla said: 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: So one sexual assault. How many were there before? The independent have an article relating to increased risk of assaults with mixed changing rooms. It seems to be 'a thing', which surprises me. Why would that surprise you? Why do you think they separate male and female in areas where they take their clothes off in the first place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: You said the policy had only recently changed, so every three months presumably means one. Again, how many incidents were there before? None for several.years, how would it be possible for there to be one if no man could enter the ladies.changing room? Now any man can if he just says he's female. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Why would that surprise you? Why do you think they separate male and female in areas where they take their clothes off in the first place?Backwards victorian attitudes about women and men being in public together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Kuro said: Has.Anyone you know died in a terrorist attack? So terrorism isn't real.then yeah? Terrorism's real, but it's rare enough not to strip the rights of anyone who vaguely shares a part of the profile of someone who has a tiny chance of being a bit terroristy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kuro said: None for several.years, how would it be possible for there to be one if no man could enter the ladies.changing room? Now any man can if he just says he's female. Evidence please, as you like to say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/03/a-system-of-gender-self-identification-would-put-women-at-risk https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison http://theconversation.com/why-self-identification-should-not-legally-make-you-a-woman-103372 http://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/womens-rights-and-the-proposed-changes-to-the-gender-recognition-act/ https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/take-it-from-a-trans-person-corbyn-is-wrong-about-self-id/ https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2016/01/26/equality-for-trans-people-must-not-come-at-the-expense-of-wo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Backwards victorian attitudes about women and men being in public together. Oh really, well when your fourteen year old daughter tells you a.man with a beard and a penis was staring at her getting changed and it made her uncomfortable you'll be able to inform her she's just a bigot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Oh really, well when your fourteen year old daughter tells you a.man with a beard and a penis was staring at her getting changed and it made her uncomfortable you'll be able to inform her she's just a bigot.Everyone is in cubicles. No-one is actually getting changed out in the open. Did you not realise this? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Everyone is in cubicles. No-one is actually getting changed out in the open. Did you not realise this? Have you never been to the gym? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Have you never been to the gym?I'd rather not answer that question. But what is your point? Wait, any time I've been to the gym it's been men's changing rooms. I was clearly answering a point about unisex changing rooms at the swimming. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Just now, pandarilla said: I'd rather not answer that question. But what is your point? In the majority of gyms i've been there are no changing cubicles. Everyone gets changed next to the lockers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) As with most issues, this one seems to be ludicrously polarised now. Surely we can come up with something that lets trans people be treated as the gender they identify with in a dignified way whilst also taking into consideration some of the potential issues that blanket self-ID might bring up? Toilets and changing rooms are a little bit of a red-herring to me. Prisons might be the more important one. Never been to prison so I've no idea if they're really as violent as portrayed on TV etc, but if I was facing a spell inside and could just switch my gender to female to go into a women's prison, I'd seriously consider it as I'd guess the odds of facing violence would be greatly reduced. As a society, I think we've got to start answering the questions of when it's actually OK to segregate based on gender or sex and when it isn't. Are we saying that people have a right to be in some places or take part in some activities where only people of their sex or their gender are allowed? Because if it's perfectly reasonable for a biologically and gender-IDing woman to not have to be in the same changing room as a biologically and gender-IDing male, then why is it actually not OK for them to not want to be in the same changing room as either a biological male who IDs as a woman or a biological female who IDs as a man? Edited June 15, 2019 by Gordon EF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 In the majority of gyms i've been there are no changing cubicles. Everyone gets changed next to the lockers.Separate genders though, no?I genuinely haven't been to a gym for a long time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Toilets and changing rooms are a little bit of a red-herring to me. Prisons might be the more important one. Never been to prison so I've no idea if they're really as violent as portrayed on TV etc, but if I was facing a spell inside and could just switch my gender to female to go into a women's prison, I'd seriously consider it as I'd guess the odds of facing violence would be greatly reduced. Change to a women before sentencing and the odds of you even ending up in prison would be massively reduced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: As with most issues, this one seems to be ludicrously polarised now. Surely we can come up with something that lets trans people be treated as the gender they identify with in a dignified way whilst also taking into consideration some of the potential issues that blanket self-ID might bring up? Toilets and changing rooms are a little bit of a red-herring to me. Prisons might be the more important one. Never been to prison so I've no idea if they're really as violent as portrayed on TV etc, but if I was facing a spell inside and could just switch my gender to female to go into a women's prison, I'd seriously consider it as I'd guess the odds of facing violence would be greatly reduced. As a society, I think we've got to start answering the questions of when it's actually OK to segregate based on gender or sex and when it isn't. Are we saying that people have a right to be in some places or take part in some activities where only people of their sex or their gender are allowed? Because if it's perfectly reasonable for a biologically and gender-IDing woman to not have to be in the same changing room as a biologically and gender-IDing male, then why is it actually not OK for them to not want to be in the same changing room as either a biological male who IDs as a woman or a biological female who IDs as a man? A sensible post. Nobody is objecting to allowing people to identity as female and live,dress, love as they choose. The issue is allowing biological men access to female only spaces. Its dangerous and most women oppose it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Separate genders though, no? I genuinely haven't been to a gym for a long time. Yes, but that's the point. Self id ends that, you can say you're female and walk into the ladies changing room and start waving your cock about and staring at women and anyone who objects is a bigot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 How much is enough? A swimming pool in Dumfries recently went gender neutral in the changing rooms, now it is averaging one serious sexual assault every three months. Is that enough?The old Olympia leisure centre in Dundee had mixed changing areas for years. Never heard of any problems. Must just be Dumfries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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