The Big Relegation Thread

[Green Day]

 

[Green Day]

[The Other Foot]

36 minutes ago, Green Day said:

 

Not obeying Boris' quarantine rules. Or maybe they are. Or maybe they aren't. 

[Aim Here]

10 minutes ago, The Other Foot said:

Not obeying Boris' quarantine rules. Or maybe they are. Or maybe they aren't. 

It's pre-lockdown. Leith has been reverberating to the sound of 'Hearts are goin' doon' since about Christmas.

[PauloPerth]

46 minutes ago, Green Day said:

 

Quality.

And what made it even better was Hibs completely bottling the rest of of the season and sliding down the pan at the same time.  

A giant congealed edinburgh jobey completely flushed in one go.

[Green Day]

25 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Quality.

And what made it even better was Hibs completely bottling the rest of of the season and sliding down the pan at the same time.  

A giant congealed edinburgh jobey completely flushed in one go.

This was Boxing Day 2019......................................

[PauloPerth]

3 hours ago, Green Day said:

This was Boxing Day 2019......................................

I did wonder if that might be the case just after I posted and was going to delete it, but that's not how things work round here. You have to bluster through and stick to your guns.

Spoiler

haha Hibs were relegated as well!! 

 

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, PauloPerth said:

I did wonder if that might be the case just after I posted and was going to delete it, but that's not how things work round here. You have to bluster through and stick to your guns.

  Reveal hidden contents

haha Hibs were relegated as well!! 

 

[Green Day]

But I am in a good mood, so have a greenie m9

[johnnydun]

Have Hearts been confirmed as relegated yet?

Are United confirmed as promoted?

What are the next steps?

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Have Hearts been confirmed as relegated yet?

Are United confirmed as promoted?

What are the next steps?

There are five stages of grief.  I think the fans of Hearts and the others will be given time to fully pass through these five stages before any actions are taken against their clubs.

The five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance issuing a statement.  We’re almost there.

[PauloPerth]

15 minutes ago, Green Day said:

But I am in a good mood, so have a greenie m9

Very generous and completely undeserved.

 

[djchapsticks]

4 hours ago, Aim Here said:

It's pre-lockdown. Leith has been reverberating to the sound of 'Hearts are goin' doon' since about Christmas.

I'm no Hetty Wainthrope but the Christmas tree in the corner suggests the festive period...

[PauloPerth]

All nonsense aside, when you step back from the pointing and laughing and statement wars, Hearts finishing bottom with that squad is a bit mental.

I know they wasted a lot of money on some very questionable signings, but Naismith and Boyce would be a better starting front two than most of the division. Every club in the division outwith the OF would have signed Halkett in the summer. Souttar, despite my personal reservations based on most times I've seen him play against us, is very highly regarded in Scotland.   I could go on about the pedigree of a fair few of their squad, relative to most of the league, but won't bother.

The fact is they only won 4 (four) games all season in what was a very poor standard of league. Probably only Motherwell fans could say their team performed above expectation shows how unimpressive most teams were.

A refusal to accept what was staring them in the face for a long time at all levels, the seriousness of their plight, and what seemed like a genuine belief that they were 'too good to go down', seemed to be prevalent to the outsider looking in at Hearts.

It genuinely must be one of the worst displays of football management (in terms of decisions made both on and off the park) in Scottish football history.  Have we witnessed anything similar?

Terry Butcher's rant about his Hibs squad with 8-9 matches remaining saying few of them would be there the following season was seriously ill-advised and backfired massively, but that was a fairly talentless Hibs team as I recall so not nearly on the same level.

Any others?

[Insaintee]

3 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

All nonsense aside, when you step back from the pointing and laughing and statement wars, Hearts finishing bottom with that squad is a bit mental.

I know they wasted a lot of money on some very questionable signings, but Naismith and Boyce would be a better starting front two than most of the division. Every club in the division outwith the OF would have signed Halkett in the summer. Souttar, despite my personal reservations based on most times I've seen him play against us, is very highly regarded in Scotland.   I could go on about the pedigree of a fair few of their squad, relative to most of the league, but won't bother.

The fact is they only won 4 (four) games all season in what was a very poor standard of league. Probably only Motherwell fans could say their team performed above expectation shows how unimpressive most teams were.

A refusal to accept what was staring them in the face for a long time at all levels, the seriousness of their plight, and what seemed like a genuine belief that they were 'too good to go down', seemed to be prevalent to the outsider looking in at Hearts.

It genuinely must be one of the worst displays of football management (in terms of decisions made both on and off the park) in Scottish football history.  Have we witnessed anything similar?

Terry Butcher's rant about his Hibs squad with 8-9 matches remaining saying few of them would be there the following season was seriously ill-advised and backfired massively, but that was a fairly talentless Hibs team as I recall so not nearly on the same level.

Any others?

Lets sack Danny Lennon and replace him with  Tommy Craig, he knows what he's doing. 

Great move 

[Guest JTS98]

3 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

A refusal to accept what was staring them in the face for a long time at all levels, the seriousness of their plight, and what seemed like a genuine belief that they were 'too good to go down', seemed to be prevalent to the outsider looking in at Hearts.

 

We see this idea again and again. Typically from St Johnstone and St Mirren fans. It doesn't tally with the reality of the discussion around football that has taken place this season and I think stems simply from an entrenched permanent opinion that bigger clubs are always arrogant rather than any basis in reality.

The reality is that Hearts got rid of their head coach who came in and binned the cub's most senior player and went out and signed an expensive new striker. This doesn't look like a complacent club to me.

At the same time Hearts supporters on Twitter (I know) and Kickback (I know) as well as Hearts-supporting friends of mine have been slating the team all season and discussing the prospect of relegation. A number of players in the team are deeply unpopular to the point of hatred.

The idea that Hearts have been sipping from the 'too good to go down' well only really comes from fans of clubs who don't like us.

Hearts have shown signs of life throughout the season. There have been good performances in there and when they've come along they have given hope, like any club. There have been times I've thought we'd turned a corner, only to fall back again. But the idea that there's been some kind of denial of our position just isn't true.

It's just the other side of the coin that says Celtic win because they try harder than everyone else. It's like saying Hearts would have done better if they'd just concentrated more. It's meaningless.

The truth is that Hearts have a squad that, while containing some good players, is imbalanced and is the consequence of good old-fashioned poor recruitment. Add to that that the club stuck by a club legend as head coach for a bit too long - hardly the first club to do so - and you have a lot of the explanation for this season.

But fans of some clubs are dying to see it as Hearts somehow being so arrogant as to assume that being bottom of the league and losing all the time is magically ok for us.

I don't know how many 'big clubs' around the world ever have to be relegated before the fallacy of 'you think you're too good to go down' will be left to die, but there you are.

It's fine, that's how football works. It's just people repeating something that they'd like to be true.

Edited May 13, 2020 by JTS98

[Insaintee]

11 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

We see this idea again and again. Typically from St Johnstone and St Mirren fans. It doesn't tally with the reality of the discussion around football that has taken place this season and I think stems simply from an entrenched permanent opinion that bigger clubs are always arrogant rather than any basis in reality.

The reality is that Hearts got rid of their head coach who came in and binned the cub's most senior player and went out and signed an expensive new striker. This doesn't look like a complacent club to me.

At the same time Hearts supporters on Twitter (I know) and Kickback (I know) as well as Hearts-supporting friends of mine have been slating the team all season and discussing the prospect of relegation. A number of players in the team are deeply unpopular to the point of hatred.

The idea that Hearts have been sipping from the 'too good to go down' well only really comes from fans of clubs who don't like us.

Hearts have shown signs of life throughout the season. There have been good performances in there and when they've come along they have given hope, like any club. There have been times I've thought we'd turned a corner, only to fall back again. But the idea that there's been some kind of denial of our position just isn't true.

It's just the other side of the coin that says Celtic win because they try harder than everyone else. It's like saying Hearts would have done better if they'd just concentrated more. It's meaningless.

It's fine, that's how football works. It's just people repeating something that they'd like to be true.

I see where you're coming from, but the Hearts malaise is deeper than six months. Budge's refusal to sack Levin, the long long wait for Stendal and then when surgery did come it was no where near deep enough. People talk about the squad but frankly the squad is poor. and needed a major slashing which is very difficult to do mid season.  You kind of remind me of Dundee United in our championship winning season, lots of big name players that were either past, or just no willing to put a shift in. 

Hearts may have woken up to reality now, but for too long they had an insane belief that things would work out because they were hearts. There are not many players at Hearts I would want at St Mirren. Maybe Halkett after that? Would not want Naismith. Maybe Boyce (is better than what we have?) Both would need to take big pay cuts and loose a bit of attitude. Perhaps Harry Cochrane might be worth a punt, but would only want him on a one year deal with an option to extend. 

I'm not saying this to troll, I genuinely don't rate your squad. It was big yes, but so are most of my bowl movements 

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Insaintee said:

1) I see where you're coming from, but the Hearts malaise is deeper than six months. Budge's refusal to sack Levin, the long long wait for Stendal and then when surgery did come it was no where near deep enough. People talk about the squad but frankly the squad is poor. and needed a major slashing which is very difficult to do mid season.  You kind of remind me of Dundee United in our championship winning season, lots of big name players that were either past, or just no willing to put a shift in. 

2) Hearts may have woken up to reality now, but for too long they had an insane belief that things would work out because they were hearts.

This post is a perfect example of everything I've said in my post that you quoted. You've pretty much confirmed my point.

1) You acknowledge, as I already pointed out, that our main problems are poor recruitment and standing by our Head Coach for too long. You also criticise us for taking too long to get Stendel in, but I'd argue that waiting a little longer to get who we considered to be the right man in the door is good practise rather than some kind of evidence of arrogance.

It's not easy to change a squad. Hearts have players on good contracts. You can't just sack them. It's overly-simplistic to say that a failure to replace players is a sign of complacency.

2) Yet, having acknowledged that Hearts' problems were basically the same as any other club who finds themselves in a relegation battle (poor squad, wrong manager), you then make the sudden jump to Hearts being arrogant. That jump comes from nowhere.

You're just seeing something that you want to see.

[Insaintee]

6 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

This post is a perfect example of everything I've said in my post that you quoted. You've pretty much confirmed my point.

1) You acknowledge, as I already pointed out, that our main problems are poor recruitment and standing by our Head Coach for too long. You also criticise us for taking too long to get Stendel in, but I'd argue that waiting a little longer to get who we considered to be the right man in the door is good practise rather than some kind of evidence of arrogance.

It's not easy to change a squad. Hearts have players on good contracts. You can't just sack them. It's overly-simplistic to say that a failure to replace players is a sign of complacency.

2) Yet, having acknowledged that Hearts' problems were basically the same as any other club who finds themselves in a relegation battle (poor squad, wrong manager), you then make the sudden jump to Hearts being arrogant. That jump comes from nowhere.

You're just seeing something that you want to see.

No I'm saying you're problems never started this season. 

[Guest JTS98]

5 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

No I'm saying you're problems never started this season. 

Absolutely nobody on the planet thinks Hearts' problems started this season.

What's the connection to arrogance?

Keep in mind that, as well as getting rid of the head coach, Hearts have signed eight new players this season plus Stevie Naismith and have got rid of 12 players. That hardly speaks of a club complacently saying 'This is fine'.

Edited May 13, 2020 by JTS98